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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say that in the light of what has happened in Paris we mustn't give the extremists what they want..?

419 replies

AWholeLottaNosy · 09/01/2015 19:58

I'd like to reproduce an article in The New Statesman which is basically saying that the aims of these attacks is to increase anti Muslim prejudice, increasing attacks on these communities ( as we've already seen in France) and thereby increasing the sense of alienation and hostility towards the West and recruiting more terrorists...?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-attack-really-struggle-over-european-values

OP posts:
ChickenMe · 10/01/2015 14:44

Grinsimon

You do very occasionally see this praying-well I have in London. PS apologies for not believing it happened - to poster of praying man photo.

I always have that don't stare don't stare end up staring more internal dialogue when I see it.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 16:21

Thought people would like to know lemony was a PBP. Or now a BP.

In case people had been hurt by their posts.

Just popped in to say that.

ghostland · 10/01/2015 16:42

What are commuters supposed to do if they encounter someone praying on the floor of a train? What is the etiquette if they need to get passed them whilst they are praying? Do they step over them. What if it is a woman in a skirt, can she step over him or would he be offended? Also aren't there health and safety regulations about praying on trains? What if people needed to get off in a rush? Surely he is obstructing the path and doors?

Nancy66 · 10/01/2015 16:43

it's a bloody stupid place to pray. idiot.

simontowers2 · 10/01/2015 17:06

I had no issue with lemony fanjo. Free speech and all that.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 17:09

Free trolling.

simontowers2 · 10/01/2015 17:10

No fanjo, free speech. You just dont get it do you? And never will i suspect.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 17:17

Yes I do.

I also get that if I was Muslim and I read some twat going round the boards saying hurtful things like I go around shooting people I would find it comforting to know it wasn't an actual person thinking this but just some sad troll.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 17:18

So obviously my post was not directed at you simon.

ChickenMe · 10/01/2015 17:18

I don't think there is an established etiquette because it's not that common but I wonder if it happens a lot in other countries? I'd say excuse me and step over if he didn't move. Same as if someone was sitting in such a way as to obstruct the doors. Hopefully he'd have the sense not to get in the way because on a commuter train he would possibly be trodden on.

kawliga · 10/01/2015 17:24

Fanjo, surely have been following the news over the last few years? The reports about shootings happening in the name of Islam are not coming from a mumsnet troll, they are coming from the news.

Although there are some conspiracy theories that say ALL news is fiction written by capitalist press barons so NONE OF IT HAPPENED and anybody who says it happened must be a troll. But people who believe in conspiracy theories cannot be helped, unfortunately.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 17:30

Thr poster was going round saying all sorts of vile generalisations about Muslims and is a troll.

End of.

Unless you are looking for a bunfight or being wilfully obtuse. I CBA do you won't get one.

CatCushion · 10/01/2015 17:39

You are missing the point. He needed to pray at a ceratin time, on a prayer mat, facing the right way. No doubt he would have got off somewhere and found somewhere more suitable, and taken a later train, if he could have. That is not always possible though, especially on long distance trains.
It is a part of his religion. He has a right to practise his religion.

ConferencePear · 10/01/2015 17:40

Something is puzzling me. How could one be sure one was facing Mecca on a train ? Surely it would have changed direction before you had finished ?
I'm sorry to be facetious on these rather heavy threads, but I do wonder.

GraysAnalogy · 10/01/2015 17:54

Having an opinion that may spark outrage doesn't make you a troll. Being a troll is when someone does it purposely for that effect.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 17:57

Well they did and were previously banned for it.
.yet I am in the wrong.

Was rethinking the break from MN since I heard that but seems people still want to act like dicks so it's a good idea to have a sanity break. Have fun.

Royalsighness · 10/01/2015 17:58

Fanjo, I could gush about you but instead have these Flowers because you are fucking great Flowers

Dawndonnaagain · 10/01/2015 18:02

see, good and bad, everywhere

Dawndonnaagain · 10/01/2015 18:04

The concept of free speech comes with the responsibility of being reasonable, surely.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/01/2015 18:14

Aww shucks. Now I am torn Grin and embarrassed. Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2015 18:17

British-based Muslim activist Anjem Choudary has just written an open letter in USA today entitled "People Know The Consequences" which warns against free speech.

He says:
"Contrary to popular misconception, Islam does not mean peace but rather means submission to the commands of Allah alone. Therefore, Muslims do not believe in the concept of freedom of expression, as their speech and actions are determined by divine revelation and not based on people's desires."

There is a gulf between Islamic and Western attitudes wrt freedom of expression, but we can't just adopt the Muslim version.
Currently for example:

Pakistan are hanging Christian Asia Bibi for blasphemy - because of her trying to reply to colleagues bullying her to convert to Islam.

Saudi Free Liberal blogger Raif Badawi has just received the first 50 of 1,000 lashes and will serve 10 years in jail, for criticiising and allowing criticism of clerics on his site.

kawliga · 10/01/2015 18:22

I agree that people should be reasonable, I think we all come on AIBU because we think it's very important to be reasonable. Satirists should be reasonable and not push the boundaries of taste and decency. Religious people should be reasonable (and find somewhere reasonable to do their prayer activities, not on the train).

But shooting people dead for being unreasonable is never ok. And when people are shot dead, there is no room there to ask 'but were the victims being unreasonable?' as if that makes it ok to shoot them.

summary: it is never ok to shoot people you disagree with.

Royalsighness · 10/01/2015 18:31

Some of Mumsnet this week has read like the comments section of the daily mail and I am shocked that certain people have come out of the woodwork with bigoted opinions in regards to prejudice and rape. That isn't aimed at anyone in particular. Well it sort of is, I just can't be arsed with hunching over my iPhone arguing anymore.

SlaggyIsland · 10/01/2015 18:32

Choudary is a fanny though. Not to be taken seriously.
I see some posters have missed the point that there were Muslim victims of this attack too.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2015 19:05

We shouldn't demand that all Muslims apologise for what some individuals do. There is no such thing as collective guilt.
However, we need to understand why terrorists feel murder is justified by their religion.

The terrorists murdered Christians, atheists, agnostics and Muslims in the Charlie Hebdo attack; their associates murdered Jews in the kosher supermarket attack.
So, they hated a lot of different people.