72 virgins in paradise

[QweenCnut]

Do they really believe this?

Do they think that by murdering innocents they will get their reward? They took my cousin 12 years ago, I will never forget the screams of my aunt.

I hope that the French jihadists rot for eternity.

Well said RedToothBrush and pp.
Some incredibly ignorant and ill-informed being really charitable here posts and posters. Sigh.

Yes - whose rights trump whose?
Is it Islam's? Or women's? Or homosexual's?
At what point do you say 'ok we understand you have a belief that this is how things should be but actually that is not acceptable in western society?'
The fact we have tolerated how Islam treats women has allowed it to become deep rooted in this country and I think actually the treatment of islamic women in this country is getting worse not better.

I have a friend who works in a predominantly Muslim area of the country. Her job is to help victims of domestic abuse and rape within marriage and also to help women who think they are going to be forced into an arranged marriage. The instance of these things is extremely high within this area.
Why are we not trying to change anything for these women long term?

When teaching I had Muslim fathers come to parent's evening (without the mother) who wouldn't even shake my hand. Who wouldn't even look at me.
How can this be right? How can we say 'that's ok, that's your religion. That trumps anyone else's feelings'

I can't help but wonder at the logic of the people who openly laugh at their belief that they will have 72 virgins waiting for them in paradise, but then suggest that they will actually be going to hell. If (as I believe) the virgins in paradise don't exist, then surely the logic means there is no hell either. I think we live and then we die...the end. To suggest otherwise is simply fanciful.

Wade Michael Page. 2012 murdered six people when attacking a Sikh Temple.

Dr. George Tiller was killed by an anti abortion Christian Right Winger. 2009.

2008 Jim Adkisson killed two peple and injured seven in a Unitarian Church in Tennessee. He hated liberals, democrats and gays.

Dr. John Britton and James Barrett shot by Paul Hilll claiming he was doing God's work. Britton was an abortion Doctor.

1996 Eric Rudolph carried out the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta. He also bombed an abortion clinic in Alabama, a lesbian bar in Atlanta and an abortion clinic in Atlanta. He was claiming to be doing God's work.

Oklahoma bombing 1995. Timoth McVeigh.

There are many, many more.

Is Islam as a religion really more intolerant than Christianity or is it just how people choose to interpret and practise their religion to blame? Big difference.

You could point to the literal word of the Bible or Koran and argue that is the true one and both are pretty awful. In fact the Bible may be the worst of the two. Though I'm not quite familiar enough with the Koran to be completely sure. There are stomach churning atrocities all through the OT.

But the 'real Islam' and 'real Christianity' are whatever is actually being practised. There is no way to point to a particular variety and say this is the true one because one person/group's interpretation is just as valid as another. People keep trying to though. We keep hearing "yes, but that's not proper islam" or ''not proper Christianity".

Right now the most common version/s of Islam are much worse than the most common version/s of Christianity, but it wasn't always so.

The most common interpretation of Christianity is now quite different to the religion of the OT which is supposed to be the same god and quite different to the way it was practised a few hundred years ago. I'm glad it has been reinterpreted, but we only say this is the valid one because we like this one better and it doesn't mostly involve torture and murder.

So, you get to Paradise, and your reward is to get fucked by a terrorist? Hmmmm

Dawndonna, I'm going to add my friends and coworkers, Shannon Lowney and Leanne Nichols both shot and killed by John Salvi one terrible morning in Brookline Massachusetts. All we were doing was trying to provide reproductive health care to woman and this man, this killer, wanted to make us stop. I will never never forget them and he did not succeed in his mission.

Whowillsaveyoursoul, I've posted things along the same lines on here, over the years. Anonymous details of what it's like to teach in some state primaries in the UK that have a majority Muslim population that holds to traditional values, Qur'anic and cultural.
A lot of posters didn't believe I was being truthful, so I thought I'd tell you that I understand the frustration and the anger at the inequality and ignorance, and the sadness that the girl children and their mothers are usually so sure that this is just the way life is and will be. And the way that it is condoned in the name of cultural sensitivities.

You are a brave woman, QuickSilver

Teenage that will only happen if you die a virgin, I assume most of us will be fine.

Did you know that it is legal with parental consent to marry at 13 in a few American States

And that was not that unusual up until the 60's to marry at 14/15

I'd also ask what is 'paradise'?

What does this place look like?

skating I once had a child of 6 tell me that he 'hated Christians' and that his dad had told him the next war would be between the Christians and the Muslims. He was the same child who refused regularly to tidy up because that 'wasn't his job' His poor mother looked spectacularly downtrodden. He was the only boy in a family of a number of girls so was quite revered.
I told my head teacher what he'd said and she just said 'oh he's repeating that from home, he doesn't really inderstand what that means.'
At the time I was livid because of the double standards allowed. I'm sure a child who had said 'I hate Muslims' would have had racism recorded on their record and likely a parent called into school.
I do feel that the Islamic religion has become untouchable. People are scared to say anything that they think is wrong about it in case they are told they are racist. But why? If I had a daughter who I didn't send to school half the time and a son I sent all the time as well as paying for trips and encouraging him whilst not even doing reading with my daughter the school would say something. Why is it acceptable in any instance?
This double standard I think is where a lot of resentment comes from.

And whilst this double standard continues to exist how will things ever improve for these children, particularly girl children? I realise this is not all Muslim families but it is very very common.

' He was the same child who refused regularly to tidy up because that 'wasn't his job' '

I've had that on numerous occasions as well
I took it as an opportunity to educate him. No tidying up? You can help me do it at break time, we'll be a team. The first couple of times, they often just stood and fumed, but when they realised that the consequence was always the same, they decided that school and home had different rules.
Best thing is to give them an understanding that the world is bigger than they think, and that lots of things are possible that they might not even have thought believable. Backed up with evidence and a sense of humour.

Likewise 'If you drink alcohol, you will go to Hell'
'Drinking alcohol is part of my religion'
'Oh'
'Do you think I'm going to Hell?'

'And whilst this double standard continues to exist how will things ever improve for these children, particularly girl children? '

Because the second generation often have different experiences that inform their parenting, and the third generation move on again. many first generation parents in my school spoke no English and were illiterate in their own language, That is not the case for their children.

Well played skating!

Two Muslim Turks executed my great granddad, shot him in the back because he refused to leave his farm in Cyprus, I missed him by a couple of years, we only received his remains 3 years ago. :( Unfortunate human beings can kill, its tribal, and unfortunately in our nature, one day we will ALL grow out of it, some people take longer than others!

My thoughts are with all those who have lost!

Actually I hope its true!

Yes a mistranslation and was originally 72 almonds or raisins. Nothing to say about the poor wretched virgins were it true. If I firmly believed that a god truly wanted me to kill those who insulted him/her I'd change my religion.
We are so steeped in political correctness that even to mildly question the sanity of female genital mutilation, the covering of women in public, arranged marriage, not allowing women to reach their full potential, the murder of those who don't believe in their God is met with furious protest. There are pics on the Internet from a while back of French villagers coming out of mass being stoned by young Islamic fundamentalists and wasn't widely reported for fear of stirring up trouble. Western culture takes the piss out of religion and politicians and if people are offended then tough move to a country where everyone is happy living in the middle ages.

As an aside, appreciate that France is our hearest neighbour but still. How much Uk coverage has there been of the slaughter of potentially thousands of Nigerians in recent attack by Islamic extremists?
Some lives worth less than others, it seems.

It's not that we don't care about people in Nigera and other places like it. We hear the same news all the time and there's little we can do about it.

XX killed 1000s in YY today (for some inexplicable reason probably involving religion) as usual they killed all the men and raped all the women and children.

YY killed 1000s in PP today in retaliation for something or other and committed the same atrocities in the name of somebody.

We can't interfere effectively because we're set up for wars, but not for sorting out lots of people who are not labelled into friend and foe.

We're blamed for not interfering and blamed if we do.

We're blamed by people who don't have food or nice houses, but who has time to build or farm when they're busy raping the neighbours kids.

It just blurs together into some kind of nightmare.

So yes our main concern is that they want to bring it here.

'We hear the same news all the time'

I think this is a key phrase. I have heard news like this all the time, and I'm in my 50s so I've been hearing news like that for years and years.
But not about Britain, and usually not about Europe. It's always been 'somewhere else'. So sad and hopeless and futile. But not really scary in the same way that an atrocity in your own country would be. And has been.

I agree people are used to - too used to- horror atories from abroad. But the likely scale of the Nigerian atrocity IS unprecedented.

I wasn't criticising people on here but the media ehich is rather Anglo/Eurocentric. Much more then other countires where i have lived.
In today's global world, a problem 'there' becomes a problem here soon enough, as 9/11 demonstrated. We should learn from history.

'But the likely scale of the Nigerian atrocity IS unprecedented. '

Sadly, I disagree. There have been countless atrocities in the last 30 years that have had innocent victims in their hundreds of thousands, some into millions.