To feel sad having seen a little girl given a dummy and a great big set of headphones thenparents sat an ate in a pub

[Bearbehind]

We were in a pub at the weekend and sat beside a couple with a 2/3 year old girl in a pushchair.

Her parents tried to get her to go to sleep by covering the buggy with a blanket and rocking it but she was wide awake. She wasn't crying or cranky, she was just babbling away to herself and didn't really want to stay in the pushchair so they put her on a seat, put a massive pair of 'beats' type headphones on her, stuck a dummy in and plugged her into an iPad.

I fully appreciate its none of my business but it just made me sad that this was such an automatic reaction with a little girl who just wanted to interact rather than a last resort.

but I would have thought it was a shame that they couldn't all enjoy the meal together. One meal out of potentially 21 (3 meals daily). Terrible that they let her entertain herself.

Just awful

Perhaps they enjoy all their other meals together?

It was everyone. Every kid. Everywhere But does it actually MATTER? These are not YOUR children. There is no law that says YOU must arm your child with a tablet & earphones. There is no obligation to follow what others are doing.

and the fact that they could order for themselves using please and thank you - the shock! So what are you saying? Children who use phones & computers don't have manners? Don't think that will go down well...

If we're not careful, those constantly plugged in kids will grow in to constantly plugged in adults sigh...

And I do love how a few stickers & colouring keeps EVERY child occupied. It worked for dd1, again, dd2 HATES colouring in, even now at 6. Also, isn't sticker-ing & colouring just another lone activity? So child still not engaging as colouring in...unless all of you sit around & colour together...

Colouring in is creative At the age of 2/3, really? Hahahahaha

It wouldn't bother me at all. Yhats just a snapshot not the full pucture. I don't want to interact 24/7 with my dcs. Right now ds1 is watching cbeebies and im ihnoring him on here. This morning he had a nursery visit and shortly we will be goung shopping then pucking her dsisters up from school.... Loads of interaction.

I don't see why it made you sad to see a child sitting contently being amused while her parents ate a meal.

Single parent to a wild DS here. He cannot for love nor money sit on his arse and colour/ chat to me/ play quietly with a toy if I'm having lunch with someone or a cuppa at home- he wants to show off/ play/ attention seek. He has my attention constantly for the rest of the day, but occassionally I do need a bit of time to sit quietly, have an uninterrupted chat with a friend or whatever. So yes, he gets to sit with his face glued to a screen now and again, he's happy and occupied and I'm not having to check him constantly which is unpleasant for both of us. He doesn't have headphones but I don't see a problem with it really.

You have no idea what the situation was and even if it was just that the parents were feeling too bloody lazy to amuse their toddler whilst they tried to eat a meal, who cares? It's hardly child abuse.

Is people watching part of going out? If I'm out with DP I tend to be talking to my DP, not looking at randoms.

gadgets to play with at 2 she would now expect them to be handed out every time I eat out with her I'm sure....

That isn't my experience. As I said, I used a phone when my daughter was 3ish, now at 6 she will happily read/talk. You make the rules & change the expectations as they grow. Rocket science it ain't!

You know, until dd2 was born I was probably the op. I didn't stare, I didn't tut or make my opinion known publicly, and I would never have (knowingly) made the parents feel bad, but I would discuss with dh (once away from the situation) that 'if only parents parented like I did' their child would be better behaved. [shame] I thought I knew it all, because dd was so brilliant & flexible & happy & take anywhere-able.

I remember being so high & fucking mighty on here about it. Then dd 2 came along & I realised that dd1 wasn't all about my parenting. It was her personality.

I actually name changed at one point as I was so [ashamed] of my ignorance.

I would now like to apologise for that ignorance. My dd2 was my karma.

Sorry, but I'm old school and unless a child had SN, then toys, ipads, colouring books etc aren't for meal times. Meals are for meal time and that counts for at home or out.

Kids need to learn to be a bit bored sometimes imo. Lots of things in life are boring - lessons you don't like at school, assemblies, going to get your brother or sister new shoes when you don't need any, homework, revision, lots of jobs etc. We have to be able to cope with boredom without having a meltdown if we can't get our ipad out. Because in a lot of situations that isn't an option.

There are a lot of circumstances where kids absolutely need stuff to do during meal times and that's fine. But for kids where SN are not an issue, then they need to learn to manage without constant stimulation imo.

I think I am using the example of a child with no additional needs, as I and my family and friends are very lucky to have been blessed with. I am also talking about a child who's father gives him the iPad and phone all the time but never gets down on the floor with him and does a puzzle or building blocks. I want talking about other kids I don't know circumstances of but a kid I know well and who has a magical time with my children. When I next post I will ensure to highlight I was talking about a specific known child and not everyone's else's. The chances are this wasn't a child with extra needs or a neglected child it was just an observation.

The family could have been away from home. Yes! When we travelled overseas a few yrs ago we hired an fairly old ipad to help us get around etc. Dh had an iphone that we didn't use for calls, but we kept it on us for an alarm etc.

After dragging the girls around old haunts, meeting old friends (who they didn't know) and family, days out at various places (inc places they didn't want to necessarily go) we stopped for food. Many places didn't have anything for the kids to do, and seeing as they had been sat in the car with limited entertainment that they quickly tired of, giving one the ipad & the otehr the iphone made sense. It allowed dh & I to plan the next leg of the journey, and the next day, while they felt entertained & happy.

Oh & they also ordered their own food with pleases & thank yous, while putting down the gadgets (in dd1's case to ask if she could have veges instead of chips with her main) because they have been raised to do so. The ipad/iphone didn't suck the manners out of them.

different , me too! Dc1 was impeccably behaved from the start. DC2 has really taught me a lesson. And that lesson is don't judge, lest ye be judged.

Yeah good luck with that.

better stay home til kids are at least 5.

So children without SN are not allowed to be stimulated if they get bored, to make things a little more peaceful and enjoyable for everyone for an hour or so, monteray?

If I don't give my son something to do when he is fed up, he doesn't just sit there looking glum and bored, he will want to run about, climb under tables, faff about with whatever is on the table, have "silly talk" to get my attention etc. etc.

That's ok when waiting for a bus or a late appointment and can dedicate your attention to keeping behaviour in check,but not ideal when you are trying to enjoy a meal or have a conversation with someone. Now and again children do need to be distracted with somethingin order to let parents get on with what they have to do.

I do t think. She has kids.

clearly just mindless drones

It's not about lazy parenting, or not teaching table manners but about responding to the needs of the child at that time.

Hear hear!!

some children don't like doing puzzles on the floor. If I decide to get down on the floor and do jigsaws with dc2 he looks at me as if I'm not right in the head and wanders off. He also has no interest whatsoever in drawing or colouring in. He is however as sharp as a tack mentally and has a great imagination. And his fine motor skills are excellent. I'm not going to force him to do 'wholesome' activities that he hates, it doesn't seem right to me.

treaclesoda we blame dd1 for us not being prepared for dd2! We say she lulled us into a false sense of security!

When DS was 3, he wouldn't walk or talk, he couldn't cope with noise or people looking at him, he wore headphones and liked to hide under a blanket so no one could see him. He has autism just like his twin sisters. Do you suggest we stay at home so not to cause people to stare and judge just like you did?

So we should be getting down on the floor in pubs now to entertain toddlers

Agree with the suggestion that the family may have been traveling - that makes a lot of sense. If they were staying at a hotel they might not have been able to get back for the child's nap, were out and about and needed lunch but with a tired toddler who needed to sleep. Kids that age can go from a little tired to screaming maniac in a matter of minutes so they probably just wanted to keep her calm until they finished their meal.

Up until DS turned 2 we were very careful about screen time and emphasized more interactive activities for him like crafts, colouring etc. Then we went on a longhaul trip with him to see grandparents and we threw the rule book out the window! He was glued to an iPad for most of the flight there and back because he wouldn't sleep on the plane and it was a choice between iPad or having him shout and screech from over tiredness for 10 hours, which I'm sure our fellow passengers would have enjoyed. It also came in handy for airport queues, rushed meals in places that weren't always kid friendly and so on.

2-3 years is a tricky age. Now that my DS has turned 3 he is getting better at amusing himself and his language is good enough to actually have a proper conversation with him and for him to understand our conversation. I could easily see us not needing the iPad soon as he gets better at sitting still and focusing on things more.

I am also a single mum and sometimes I do need time to myself as does my kid. If he was into computer I would happily put him in front of the ipad so that I can be on my own for 15 minutes and eat in peace. Unfortunately he likes to talk.....

Now you might not do that with your child which is your prerogative but you have no right to assume the well being of the child by this single snapshot. YABVU

Sorry, but I'm old school and unless a child had SN, then toys, ipads, colouring books etc aren't for meal times. Meals are for meal time and that counts for at home or out.

You do realise that the children aren't born with a special needs diagnosis? DS is at the start of the process of possibly bring diagnosed with ASD if we get a diagnosis does that mean it is suddenly acceptable for me to distract him as and when needs when we are out? If he isn't diagnosed does that mean suddenly he will be happy to sit for hours?

You view is very simplistic and seems to suggest that only those diagnosed with special needs will struggle

DS1 lulled us into a false sense security about himself. As i said upthread we took him out several times a week to restaurants from 5 days old. In fact we were the type of smug wankers who thought that his good behaviour was purely down to our excellent parenting (well it's only human nature to be that arrogant i suppose). We also spouted some of the same kind of shite that is being peddled on this thread. We even took him to a really lovely/posh restaurant on our honeymoon when he was 4mo. He behaved beautifully. People came over to tell us what a great job we were doing. We nearly did ourselves an injury with all the self congratulatory back slapping.

He started taking a few steps at 9.5mo and we thought 'oh that's a bit early but just more adventures in art galleries and NT properties' (HA!) By 10mo he was running and demanding to get out of the buggy the second it stopped moving (shopping was a bit like 'Speed' meets supermarket sweep. Any slower than a certain mph and he combusted. things got frisbeed into the trolley at such a rate that unpacking when i got home was more like a lucky dip 'oh, i bought x did i?'). By 1yo we felt as tho we had been hit in the face with a frying pan. It wasn't so much of a 'learning curve' as falling off a learning cliff and landing in a barrel of what the fuck.

Now we have ds2 we are belt and braces and willing to try anything to survive. However, i suspect ds2 will be completely docile and much easier in comparison. I'm so glad it will be this way round tho. Everything will seem like a dream - I went xmas shopping round town just with ds2 and i stopped for a tea and i am still remembering how incredible it felt to just sit still for a moment

Anyway- Completely the opposite of the point of this thread, but can anyone who does use the ipad (to ensure no interaction whatsoever with the children they are too lazy to build a scale model of the leaning tower of pisa with while in Giraffe), recommend any games that DS1 may like? I am crappy on the ipad so can't do much.

This kind of thing really annoys me. I have a toddler who gets plenty of interaction. He has a swimming class, soft play and playgroups weekly. Trips to the park and library and play with me at home. Yet no doubt if I wanted just 10 mins with my oh without having to chase my son around the restaurant I would be judged if he watches my phone or tablet quite happy. All because people like you judge on one snapshot of a person's life without knowing what they do the rest of the time

MrsKoala how old is DS1? Any particular phases of interest he has at the moment?

Wow! So much advice on this thread! Don't eat out - EVER - until your child is old enough to behave! Eat out all the time so they can practice! Take crayons and toys and books! DON'T take crayons and toys and books!

How about deciding what's best for YOUR family and letting other parents get on with it?

I have to agree with the posters a few pages ago who called "bollocks!" To the notion that parents of the past were superior ineractors. I remember getting home from nursery at lunch, and being parked in front of the TV with a cheese sandwich watching Playschool, Button Moon and Pigeon Street while my mum got on with housework until it was time to collect my older brothers from school. When I learned to read I was allowed to bring books to restaurants to occupy myself while we were waiting for the food. My parents we lovely but I think expectations were different (more realistic?) in the 70s and 80s. Anyway, I seem to have reasonable social skills now.

Hmm, OP didn't you say that you were at the pub with just your DH? So in fact you weren't interacting with your child / children at all. How sad that they weren't enjoying the meal with you.