To ask you all to sign petition regarding Oldham and Ched Evans

[floatyflo]

Actually I don't believe I am being unreasonable. But wanted to bring it to attention.

MN seems to be a quiet on this today but I think the fight should still go on. I can't link to it as I am so not tech savvy enough but it is on change.org. (Same person whk set up the Sheffield Weds one so of you sogned that one it is pretty easy to locate).Already has over 9000 signatures so please please please continue to sign and share!

malice - just read the summary of the case in the court of appeal judgement in order to find the answer to your question. It doesn't use too many long words, I promise.

"April 1998: Arrested in public toilets in Beverly Hills, California for engaging in a lewd act and sentenced to 80 hours community service. The incident forced him to disclose his homosexuality and his relationship with American Kenny Goss."

AFAIK the act was consensual although the place was inappropriate and unlawful.

Do you consider CE a dirty filthy rapist, Malice?

He has shown remorse.

How? By allowing his supporters to vilify and hound his victim to the extent that she has had to move five times?

I certainly haven't seen any sign of remorse, Icimoi. What a strange thing for that poster to say.

The website in his name is pure hate towards his victim - even featuring a "letter from a very brave lady" who was really raped- like "rape rape" - (not just being a 'drunken slag' or other highly offensive names she was called by his supporters). And it's all people like her's (CE's victim's) fault that real rapists get away with it.

So now the Chedgenda includes homophobia?

Nice.

I'm a bit bemused about his supposed "right" to walk straight back into employment. Surely most men who have to declare a recent rape conviction find it hard to get a job?

It's frankly lazy parenting to say that Ched Evans should be banned from playing football so as to ensure that the minds of the young and impressionable are protected if that's the motivation. Surely it's much better to have the conversation and debate it.

No doubt. But can you guarantee that every parent of every impressionable child will have that conversation and debate? And can you guarantee that every stroppy adolescent will take on board what their parents tell them about Ched Evans?

If this publicity stops just a few unfortunate girls from getting raped and thinking they deserve it, and just a few young men from thinking it's big and clever to force intercourse on drunken girls who may be incapable of consent, it's worth it.

I must say, I do wonder whether that solicitors' firm that sponsors the team's shirts would take Evans on in a position where he would have direct contact with their clients.

I've posted on the Web Applications blog post detailing their response, but I imagine that although it's not offensive in any way, it will get moderated out.

"In respect of the case (and I'm not abn expert) I'd question - if the victim's complaint was that she was sooooo drunk she could not have possilby consented (and I understand there were two co-defendents) how could one be convicted, and the other not?"

Malice, this has already been extensively debated up thread. RTFT as I CBA to go through it again!

Malice, can you say in detail what you think the "victim's complaint" actually was?

Malice's language was crass, homophobic and inappropriate, but it was clearly a devil's advocate position.

If properly phrased, the appropriate rebuttal is that GM admitted that what he did was wrong, apologies and sought help for his substance abuse, which allowed him to salvage something of his career. His conduct since then casts some doubt on whether this acceptance was justified!

And malice, don't RTFT. RTFJ (judgment). It is linked on the thread and contains the facts an the rationale for acquitting CM while convicting CE.

And if she was making the whole thing up for the lolz and cash, and to sell her story - it was pretty poorly executed. I mean, "I don't remember" isn't going to get her a photo-shoot in the Sun, is it?

She didn't report rape to the police - as has been said already - she went to the police to report that she woke up in a hotel room, minus clothes and handbag, and couldn't remember how she got there.

The police pieced it together. Ched Evans was convicted on his and CM's tale of events - not hers.

Yy Sabrina.

I'm still not aware of anyone who made masses of cash out of a rape claim, but y'know, the myth persists.

Sabrina - there was evidence from many in the case, including the victim (I myself got this wrong earlier). The victim gave no evidence as to consent, as she has no memory of those events, but it's not true to state that it was CM and CEs evidence alone that convicted CE.

No I know - there was plenty of corroborating evidence from the taxi driver, night porter etc. That wasn't really my point.

I doubt Ched Evans would have been convicted without the evidence of Ched Evans.

You only have to look at how many rape cases get to trial to know that

"I can't remember, I was drunk, but he probably raped me"

Won't get you anywhere.

On the other hand I am sure that many ignorant people believe that the courts are full of money grabbing man hating women successfully ruining the lives of innocent men because it's such fun to take that kind of claim to court and all you have to do is just breeze into a police station and really they have nothing better to do than arrest people for any old thing.

The whole debacle breaks my heart. Some are saying he isn't/shouldn't be a roll model, he's just a footballer but that misses a lot of points. This is a young man who, like an awful lot of small boys, loved to play football. I doubt his mother thought she was bringing him up to not only use a young woman like a toy but to see it as his given right. To go so far the opposite side of 'consent' that before meeting her he had decided not only he was going to have sex but told his brother and friend so they could watch. That's so far from the idea of consent I don't even know where to start. He was so twisted by the football culture to believe this wasn't wrong he was that he told police officers exactly what had happened.

I spend an awful lot of time watching small boys play football. Stealth boast or not I have a child who was scouted by a premier league club and trains in one of their development squads so I see a hell of a lot of very lovely, very talented boys who don't want roll models they just want to play the game, all day every day, and are such a pleasure to watch. This young man needs to be held up like this until he learns, the clubs learn, their sponsors learn and the young men who play football learn that this is NOT acceptable/normal/decent human behaviour. It is wrong and we cannot have the next generations of sweet boys learn that this is acceptable. For their sake and the sake of all the lovely little girls running round playing football with them. It makes me want to cry and wish I could write how I feel. I don't want my babies following their dreams if it means they will be taught that being good at football gives them a God given right to treat women like sub-human creatures to be used and discarded.

""April 1998: Arrested in public toilets in Beverly Hills, California for engaging in a lewd act and sentenced to 80 hours community service "

So not rape. And not an offence carrying a custodial sentence.