In not being all humble and respectful and all that.(abortion related)

[IdontusuallyNC]

I have had the contraceptive injection twice now obviously I had it done on time and followed all instructions given to me I also usually use condoms I have 3 occasions where condom use has not been optimum all in the same weekend.

I have recently to my horror discovered that I am pregnant, POAS because I feel like crap and it felt like HG not expecting it to be the case but these things happen. Due to the amount of children I have one being tiny the nature of the relationship with my sexual partner and a quite serious history of HG and SPD(all but 1 previous pregnancy) I have booked in to have a TOP on Tuesday.

I'm quite comfortable with my decision and in general tend to be quite matter of fact about things.

My closest friend has gone very weird on me I declined an invitation for Tuesday from her and disclosed why. Ever since she has been upset because I'm not being sad enough she feels I'm being flippant about human life and not respectful.

I'm not entirely sure what she means by this and she has tried to be sympathetic not that it is needed but has mentioned this on a few occasions.

So am I meant to be sad and stuff or is it acceptable to feel positive towards the decision?

Yes it does fail but no one forced you to have sex/ take the risk of becoming pregnant. And to be honest if you combine hormonal and barrier and use both properly the chances of pregnancy are almost zero.

Sorry but I feel people ( men and women) should take more personal responsibility fir their fertility.

You can create new life. Sex is not primarily for pleasure ( don't get me wrong I'm pleased it is tho) but for the continuation of the human race.

And why are pro choices always so black and white!!! To me a 2/4/6/8 week embryo is different than a 14/16/18 etc week fetus not least because it can feel things, has a nervous system, brain and pain receptors.

Where's the compassion?????

Good point about not having to have sex, but it's kind of expected in a heterosexual relationship that there will be PIV sex. An earlier poster on this thread said that maybe there needs to be a change of culture around expectations of PIV sex and a focus on other types of sex (I don't mean anal btw) which are less risky for women.

And there are also health risks associated with hormonal contraception. All in all women get a bit of a raw deal in some ways imo

Not everyone can use both hormonal and barrier methods though. I can't use hormonal methods, my sibling has a latex allergy. Both of those make contraception more tricky to manage and if a very reliable method fails (in my case the coil which was recommended over sterilization as more effective!) then what? I should risk my life (as the op would) because no one raped me? I think in general pro choicers have compassion for everyone involved - mother, father and current children rather than just the foetus and trust the woman to make the best choice without judgment or conditions. Just as we trust adults to make the best choice regarding any other medical and lifestyle decisions, whether they are the ones we would make or not. Seems pretty black and white to me!

Yes I agree woman get a raw deal but a society where unwanted pregnancy is yet another problem for women to deal with is not the answer. I do believe in choice but also believe we are all capable of avoiding pregnancy in 99.9 % of cases. That people choose not to be careful enough does not therefore automatically mean that viable babies should be aborted on demand.

Fwiw DH and I have not had PIV sex since the birth if our youngest child as to us another pregnancy would be utterly unwanted and disastrous. As I know I could not make the decision to abort this is the way we 'manage' the situation until I am sterilized. No one has died or gone mental here through lack of sex I can assure you!!

Mrshumpty, I'd hope that if a woman willingly has sex while using contraception then the sole purpose of that sex should be for pleasure (certain exceptions aside).

A universal 'primary purpose of sex' is futile (and wrong) to try to define, given how tied up in individual psychology and societal norms.

It isn't a coffeemaker.

I jassy but no one has a 'right' to sex though, and many many people live very happily with little or no sex.

I spent 19 years successfully avoiding pregnancy, initially by taking the pill exactly as prescribed, then when I was no longer able to take the pill I used condoms ( again no chances taken). I have also combined condoms with charting eg avoiding fertile times this was after I fell pregnant with DC1 on first attempt and realising I was probably very fertile ( same thing with DC 2 so have I just been incredibly lucky for the previous 19 years or was I in fact taking care and being responsible??)

And I come back to the point that yes most people will set some point want sex purely for pleasure but it doesn't mean they were forced to become pregnant or give birth if they have a contraceptive failure!!!!! Pregnancy is a well documented side effect of sex!!

No, given that PIV sex requires two people, no one has a 'right' to it. Where did I suggest otherwise?

Sex is an activity that many find pleasurable and fulfilling. To suggest that its primary purpose must always be to create children (with the implication that if preventive measures fail, the woman must live with the consequences of that failure) is akin to saying that the primary purpose of smallpox is to keep the human population in balance, and that eradicating smallpox was therefore morally wrong.

Humans have spent the past couple of millennia trying to subvert or transcend the 'natural order' right across the board. Trying to impose the way nature intended it for one thing, but not for others is deeply illogical.

Your experience is anecdote, not evidence, you know that, yes? Yes, you may have been very lucky. Contraceptive failures happen, as OP's experience demonstrates. Education and confidence can also be very sketchy. And, sadly many women - especially young women - are coerced by men.

I've never had to consider a termination. Because yes, I've been lucky on a number of counts.

Where is your compassion?
Keep your rosaries off our ovaries, and keep your opinions on other womans uteruses to yourselves.

mrshumpty the OP did use hormonal and barrier methods. Still got pregnant.

-any- contraception can fail, including steralization. Im waiting for that too btw. It's hard on my husband, though he's extremely civilized about it.

But just because you and I have nice husbands you can't extrapolate to everyone. Not all men are civilized about not having relations for many months. It's deeply unrealistic to say 'you can just live without sex' because actually, a lot of people choose not to.

I still don't think that's an argument for making women have pregnancies and children that they don't want

Like most women you've been responsible with a bit of luck - luck that you didn't have PIV sex and then food poisoning meaning the pill failed and you conceived or no condoms split and the MAP failed. I had a coil as I am too young to be considered for sterilization and it failed. Was I irresponsible or unlucky? And again just because no one forced me should I not have the choice to abort a dangerous, life threatening pregnancy? If there is no access to abortion then surely unlucky women will be forced to continue pregnancies they don't want? (I'm not being sarcastic, I think I must be missing something!)

Grockle I'm not clutching rosaries I can attire you. I am a committed atheist and humanist. I also have no need to get my hands of other peoples ute ruses, as the owners of said ute ruses are able to decide who and what enters them, as I said previously rape not withstanding.

The point I am trying to make is we, as individuals and as a society as a whole would be better off to look at each other Ina. Much more thoughtful and compassionate way. This includes human beings that have yet to have gone through the process of being expelled from a. Uterus!!

Ultimately I am pro 'choice' as I would never be the one to deny any woman the right to access a termination of pregnancy, it doesn't mean I think abortion per se is a good thing per se or that people, me and women should continue to enter into debate about why so very many women seem to be having them these days.

Are 'so many women' having them these days?

I am so very old that I date from the time of 'every child a wanted child' slogans, which seems an even better idea to me now that I have experienced the sheer demands of parenting.

Mother the gov?UK website says there were just over 185,000 abortions carried out in Uk last year. Also that 1/3 of women will have an abortion in there lifetime. That does seem like "a lot" to me.

I got pg with a mirena coil, I was not irresponsible.

Facts stand anyway that abortion will always be here, just as it always has been, what is so, so important is that it is safe and legal

there is free access to a wide range of contraception - As others have pointed out, some people can't use contraceptives for medical reasons.

Also, some women - like OP and a friend of mine - get pregnant despite multi-layered contraception. My friend hardly ever had sex, always used 2 or 3 contraceptives, and still ended up with a battery of children. She's had her tubes tied now, and I'm half expecting to hear she's pregnant again!

There are women whose pregnancies don't show (some on this very thread.) They don't realise they're pregnant until very late on.

And people make mistakes. If I'd got pregnant after drunkenly inserting my diaphragm skewhiff, I'd have been devastated to find I had no further options. Mine would have been a late discovery, too, as my periods could be up to six months apart.

On top of all this, as I keep saying, life isn't predictable. Circumstances can change drastically over 9 months. Fatal abnormalities can be missed. A woman's life can fall apart. Foetuses can be injured. To base legislation on assumptions that all pregnancies proceed problem-free, and that they can all be planned, is naive to the point of infantile.

"Every child a wanted child" - It's hard to believe there are people arguing against this.

mrsHumptyDumpty could you quote what the statistics say exactly, and provide a link?
1/3 of women having an abortion within a lifetime is higher than I recall the figures being, but if true, that would be 1/3 of women have an abortion between puberty and menopause, so that could be within up to forty years. That's a lot of years for someone to employ contraception perfectly. Statistically, not everyone's going to manage it!

Queen if you just google 'uk statistics on abortion government figures' it will give you the website ( gov.uk) links to all the recent years statistics. Can't do links her have no idea how!!

I have never had an abortion. For years I reckoned that was probably due to me simply not being particularly fertile (though I suspected I might have had at least one very early miscarriage). Unless you are trying - and failing - to concieve, you generally have no idea of how fertile you are. I usually used contraception, but was aware of it having a failure rate.
When I did get pregnant, I decided to continue the pregnancy (initially, I wasn't at all sure that the pregnancy would continue due to my age and previous gynaecological problems) - the one reaction I found a bit strange from acquaintances was that some people, when I mentioned the pregnancy, would ask me if I was going to keep it. It was sometimes a struggle to find a polite way of saying 'If I wasn't going to keep it, why do you think I would be telling you about it?'

I've been careless with contraception in the past and thought I'd been 'lucky'. Turns out I'm infertile...

I tried but failed to get free condoms locally. I was able to get the pill etc. but hormonal methods didn't work for me and affected my health.

And if sex is simply for the purpose of procreation then should I give up now?

Interesting, thank you.

I just wondered. It doesn't stop me thinking that women need access to abortion. If anything, it strengthens my feeling that we need access to early, safe abortion if such a high demand is there. Alongside, obviously, as much sex ed as possible (including the sort of sex that doesn't make you pregnant, including sex with your own gender).

The 2013 abortion rate was the lowest since 1997, with 15.9 abortions per 1000 resident women aged 15-42 being carried out.

That's nearly 5% lower than 10 years previously when you adjust the raw figures for population. And a larger proportion are women who have previously given birth, or who have previously had a miscarriage without giving birth. (separate figures, both higher.)

There were 190 abortions that took place after 24 weeks gestation.

And when you look at the age ranges (women aged 22 are the most likely to have an abortion), geographical distribution (abortions more likely to take place in lower-income areas), ethnicity, and other factors you start to see a picture, and you need to take a really careful look at 'women need to take responsibility' as an overriding position. Because there are some quite complex factors at play.

And even if a woman has been 'irresponsible' (what a charming word, never the man as sex for him is consequence-free) she shouldn't be punished by being forced to carry a child to term.

Here are the abortion stats for 2013.