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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In not being all humble and respectful and all that.(abortion related)

600 replies

IdontusuallyNC · 04/01/2015 16:09

I have had the contraceptive injection twice now obviously I had it done on time and followed all instructions given to me I also usually use condoms I have 3 occasions where condom use has not been optimum all in the same weekend.

I have recently to my horror discovered that I am pregnant, POAS because I feel like crap and it felt like HG not expecting it to be the case but these things happen. Due to the amount of children I have one being tiny the nature of the relationship with my sexual partner and a quite serious history of HG and SPD(all but 1 previous pregnancy) I have booked in to have a TOP on Tuesday.

I'm quite comfortable with my decision and in general tend to be quite matter of fact about things.

My closest friend has gone very weird on me I declined an invitation for Tuesday from her and disclosed why. Ever since she has been upset because I'm not being sad enough she feels I'm being flippant about human life and not respectful.

I'm not entirely sure what she means by this and she has tried to be sympathetic not that it is needed but has mentioned this on a few occasions.

So am I meant to be sad and stuff or is it acceptable to feel positive towards the decision?

OP posts:
OopsButItWasntMe · 05/01/2015 13:34

I wouldn't expect anyone to be gleeful about it TheBabyFAcedAssasin but I know I couldn't say that I supported something unless I was ok with it actually happening and I definitely would not be ok with an abortion happening at 40 weeks.

Original poster
IdontusuallyNC · 05/01/2015 13:41

but an earlier poster said that she thought that applying any condition to your prochoice position e.g. a time limit, meant that you were supporting forced birth so that's why she supports it up until birth

Pretty sure that was SGB who very clearly said SHE supports it at no time (I think) has she said anybody else should.

OP posts:
Enormouse · 05/01/2015 13:44

You may not be ok with it oops but another woman might be. And why should your feelings override hers in terms of what decisions she makes?

Like babyfaced said, I wouldn't be jumping with glee but I would not want the rights of women curtailed because of something 'not sitting quite right with me'.

Adding conditions turns it into a slippery slope.

Original poster
IdontusuallyNC · 05/01/2015 13:44

What someone else does about their own pregnancy and when or why nothing to do with me

OP posts:
OopsButItWasntMe · 05/01/2015 13:48

I didn't say that my feelings over ride hers. I just can't say that I support something unless I would actually be ok with it happening. So I, personally, can not say that I support abortion to 40 weeks. I guess that means that I'm not pro-choice in your opinion but I think there are other people like me who disagree with your definition.

mammuzzamia · 05/01/2015 13:51

Why did you mention your miscarriages then? Genuine question Smile

Nice, passive aggressive smile.
Yes you are still being rude, not least because I never did try to make a connection between a wanted pregnancy and a termination of a pregnancy.

Enormouse · 05/01/2015 13:53

What cut off would you suggest then oops? Since everyone disagrees about when life starts, what would be your cut off limit. And how would you reconcile it with the views of other people.

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 05/01/2015 13:55

Exactly Idont.

Thats the long and short of it really!

If someone doesn't "agree with" (god I HATE that phrase) termination - they don't have to have one, its quite simple.

That's what the pro choice movement is all about essentially - fighting to allow women to have options, to CHOOSE what happens to THEIR OWN body.

You can be pro-choice and choose to never have an abortion - that's fine!

TheCowThatLaughs · 05/01/2015 14:00

But, but you mentioned your miscarriages on a thread about abortion to explain why you think a foetus is a life. It wasn't meant to be passive aggressive, really. I've obviously misunderstood you I just thought you were saying that a foetus is a life and using your miscarriages to illustrate that point?

GallicShrug · 05/01/2015 14:07

I definitely would not be ok with an abortion happening at 40 weeks.

Depending on what you mean by OK - for the sake of this discussion, I'm supposing you mean "I want no full-term abortions to happen" - what about pregnancies that are actually terminated immediately prior to, or during, birth? This used to happen more frequently; it was one of a midwife's more upsetting duties. But babies can still turn out to be horrifically compromised, either by undetected faults or recent events. Would you insist a brand-new life should begin with unspeakable suffering and end, hours or days later, in yet more? Would you force the mother to observe this?

Or what about, say, a solo pregnant woman who's recently been told she has weeks to live? Some would choose to spend those weeks with their child; some would find it intolerable, knowing the baby's future was undetermined. What if she's in a condition which means she will die if the baby's born? Do you remove that awful decision from her and her medical team, sentencing her to death?

Things happen, you know. There have already been too many tragedies caused by unthinking legislation in favour of the 'unborn'.

mammuzzamia · 05/01/2015 14:15

I just thought you were saying that a foetus is a life and using your miscarriages to illustrate that point?

As you know was only in response to the earlier stereotype you made that not everybody of this view is religious and/or Catholic. Which I explained...

Just to add generally I'm actually very much pro choice.

Enormouse · 05/01/2015 14:16

I agree assassin

What I'm trying to say, probably not as eloquently as other posters, is that everyone has a different concept of when life begins. By having restrictions on abortion limits you are imposing your values on others who may not share your views. To me that is not pro choice.

That is discriminating against women who may find out late into pregnancy that their baby has a condition incompatible with life, women who for various reasons make their decision late.

I myself would not have such a late term abortion but that has no bearing on whether other women should be able to access one if they need it. My personal feelings are not as important as their rights.

Enormouse · 05/01/2015 14:17

Thank you gallic that's exactly what I was trying to say.

wickedlazy · 05/01/2015 14:17

I agree it's a personal decision, and that abortion is better (safer etc) when it's legal. But if someone I knew had one, I would see them in a different light, and would struggle to be close to them again (also a personal thing).

But it does sound as if your friend is trying to be sympathetic/understanding, but just can't comprehend your reaction/flippancy. I think with time you'll be okay again.

GallicShrug · 05/01/2015 14:17

My personal feelings are not as important as their rights. - Precisely, Enormouse.

wickedlazy · 05/01/2015 14:21

*Your friendship will be okay again.

TheCowThatLaughs · 05/01/2015 14:22

Oh right! I still think there are probably a lot of religious types that hold similar views though!

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 05/01/2015 14:24

My personal feelings are not as important as their rights.

Yup - This, this and this again.

NancyRaygun · 05/01/2015 14:39

My personal feelings are not as important as their rights

Yes, exactly. This is why is support women going through an abortion at any stage of pregnancy, why I do not support the death penalty and what I will now point out to anyone who calls themselves pro choice but gets a bit sniffy about terminations that don't fit their level of 'acceptability'.

thingswesaidtoday · 05/01/2015 15:23

I had a TOP at age 27, I'm so glad that I live in a country where there was no judgement and I was allowed to make the decision best for me.

I was on the other end of the scale whereby people were trying to force me into having a baby - it was awful and I know 100% I wouldn't have been a good mother had I been forced into it.

SolidGoldBrass · 05/01/2015 16:08

I support women's right to decide what happens to their bodies, which is why I would actively campaign for abortion up to term on request. As early as possible, as late as necessary. ANd I am not ashamed of the contempt I feel for the woman haters and the silly sentimentalists who are happy to condemn other women to death rather than allow them to terminate a pregnancy they don't want, or which is life-threatening to them.
Because women who can't get abortions can die. When a foetus is compromised and not going to live/survive the process of birth, forcing the woman to carry it to term and deliver it dead or dying quite often means that both the woman and the foetus die.
The tiny number of hypothetical women who want to terminate late in pregnancy because they'd rather go to a party on their due date, or are fed up with looking fat or whatever, really really don't matter when compared to the numbers of actual women dying due to pregnancy complications when an abortion would have saved them.

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 05/01/2015 16:37

'As early as possible, as late as necessary' sums up my feelings too.

If we start putting conditions on women's rights with regards to abortion, what next? You can have equal pay... But only if you dress nicely and wear make up in the office. You have the right to not be raped - but only if you dress modestly.

Meerka · 05/01/2015 16:58

I am glad abortion is available and I'm even more glad that I don't have to frame the laws.

But I admit it sits ill with me to consider abortion at 36 or 40 weeks. It sits even iller to have non-involved people mandating that someone with serious health problems like the OP'er can't have an abortion.

that I believe is wrong. But even so ... 40 weeks?

GallicShrug · 05/01/2015 17:22

All the best for tomorrow, IdontusuallyNC Flowers

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 05/01/2015 17:31

I'll keep you in my thoughts tomorrow idontusuallyNC.
I hope the HG doesn't linger around too long for you.