In not being all humble and respectful and all that.(abortion related)

[IdontusuallyNC]

I have had the contraceptive injection twice now obviously I had it done on time and followed all instructions given to me I also usually use condoms I have 3 occasions where condom use has not been optimum all in the same weekend.

I have recently to my horror discovered that I am pregnant, POAS because I feel like crap and it felt like HG not expecting it to be the case but these things happen. Due to the amount of children I have one being tiny the nature of the relationship with my sexual partner and a quite serious history of HG and SPD(all but 1 previous pregnancy) I have booked in to have a TOP on Tuesday.

I'm quite comfortable with my decision and in general tend to be quite matter of fact about things.

My closest friend has gone very weird on me I declined an invitation for Tuesday from her and disclosed why. Ever since she has been upset because I'm not being sad enough she feels I'm being flippant about human life and not respectful.

I'm not entirely sure what she means by this and she has tried to be sympathetic not that it is needed but has mentioned this on a few occasions.

So am I meant to be sad and stuff or is it acceptable to feel positive towards the decision?

agreed, all the best to you tomorrow Idon'tusually.

Enormouse If I'm honest, even the 24 week limit doesn't quite sit right with me (friend's twins were born at 24+3) but I know it's been chosen to balance the rights of the mother with the ability of the foetus to survive. I don't think my own opinion really matters though. The law is what it is. It's very unlikely that the limit would be moved to 40 weeks and I do think that's a good thing. I have read your arguments for why you think you should support abortion to 40 weeks and I can appreciate your sentiment but no, I don't think it is right and I can't agree with you. If that means I can't call myself pro-choice then I guess I'm not pro-choice. I would rather be called something else than be associated with something that I really and truly could not support.

Gallic wasn't that before c-sections? I don't think I've heard of a situation where a baby has had to be killed at birth. As for babies experiencing suffering if they aren't killed just before birth or women finding out that they're dying just before they give birth, isn't that a bit of a slippery slope to infanticide if the woman is ill or the child is found to be disabled at birth?

SolidGoldBrass I don't think that's true about women dying because they can't have late term abortions. Woman can have abortions if their life is in danger but after a certain point they will usually be able to save both the woman and the baby.

The law currently allows TOP to term under those circumstances

Hope all goes smoothly for you tomorrow op and you can get back to normal soon

Oops, it's infanticide if the baby's been born, not before. I'm not talking about a 'disabled baby'. There are numerous circumstances in which a foetus may survive in utero, but stands no chance of making it outside. I will not go into details; you can do a gruesome google if you want. And also bear in mind that heavily pregnant women can be in accidents, be shot or hit by shrapnel, and undergo all sorts of other physical insult which also damages the foetus.

The midwives of my childhood sometimes strangled or smothered fatally deformed babies in the birth canal. These days, medics might offer to 'anaesthetise' the baby (?) I don't actually know how this is handled in today's reality.

It is because life isn't cut-and-dried that I support open-ended TOP.

they will usually be able to save both the woman and the baby

But there will be unusual cases. Plus (probably more) cases where both woman and child will be severely disabled, not necessarily with adequate lifetime support. And - probably most controversially - mothers who will feel they have no alternative to infanticide and/or suicide if forced to have their baby.

On what Gallic has said, my daughter was only able to survive whilst in utero as I was her lungs as such. Had she been born alive we would have had to watch her suffocate as her lungs had not formed at all.
We had to put together a plan for what we wanted to happen if she were born alive, we could choose to attempt to extend her life (by minutes) or allow her to be given pain killing medication to make her comfortable while she died.
As it turned out her heart stopped due to placental clots caused by severe polyhydramnios so we didn't have to put the plan in action.
It happens.
Oops do you support termination for fatal foetal abnormality up to term?
I'm not sure if your issue is solely with 'healthy' foetuses or if it is any foetus.

I don't think I'd want to have an abortion at 40 weeks other than in circumstances already allowed for by law (and possibly not in all of those), but I support removal of any legal bar to abortion, because I think it's a question where the only person who is in a place to weigh the situation properly and make that decision is the woman who is pregnant. I just don't think it's a place for society to be substituting its decision making instead.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with every decision to terminate (or every decision not to), in that I wouldn't always make the same decision, and in some cases I would possibly be shocked by the values someone exhibited. But I think it should be their decision to make, regardless of how it makes me feel. That's what I consider to be pro-choice. I don't really think other stances are pro-choice, because they don't accept that women should be trusted to make decisions in their individual circumstances.

Yes well put BoomBoom

I don't understand what people are finding difficult to process about the idea that putting time/circumstance barriers on abortion is still exerting control over women's bodies, which no one has the right to do.

boomboom - good post

moomin - i think the issue is that women are seen as worth less than the foetus.

Sorry - ie women being worth less than others is a normal state.

My views exactly boomboom I get to decide for me and you get to decide for you

I think many people don't understand what pro choice means, they read it as pro abortion when it is not.
I couldn't understand the choice of a happily married couple with three chikdren to put the fourth up for adoption at birth, couldn't understand the heroin addict living in a box to keep her baby, I couldn't understand the woman terminating because she wanted to go to a party.
I don't need to understand, and that's the point of pro choice, you accept and support every woman's choice.

What does your DP think about it?

Have you actually read OP's posts, machair?

I am an athiest and a pro-life feminist. There is a stereotype that pro-lifers are all religious nuts but it is just that - a stereotype.

Prolife feminist is an oxymoron

In that case either your definition of feminist or your definition of pro life is incorrect embracethemuffintop.

Why do threads about termination always end up as a discussion that pitched 'pro-life' vs. 'pro-termination'??
Of course I'd rather have a society in which women had full control over their fertility and had fantastic support to continue their pregnancies AND look after the baby/child once its born.

But - I believe it's the woman's choice and nobody else's. I am pro choice. I am very much pro life: without wanting to get sucked in to a discussion when 'life' begins (who knows??) surely the existing life of the woman and any children she may already have must supersede the potential for life inside her? Surely?

I will never understand how 'pro-choice' is seen as 'anti-life' - horrible, propagandistic, misogynist nonsense.

So, by my definition I too am a pro-life feminist. One who is pro-choice ; the woman's choice.

Brillo, missed your post. Exactly.

Good Luck for tomorrow - hope all goes well

What does your DP think about it?

If i had someone that could qualify as a DP would it be any of his business?

I told my bf, I asked for his opinion, he told me, and I know meant it, that it was up to me and he woukd support me, and he did, as best he could.
He didn't deserve to know though, he didn't and doesn't deserve to know anything about my body.

May I point out that 8 years on we talk almost daily, logistics keep us apart, but neither one of us will settle for anyone less than the other.

TOP, even at a later date can happen without hand wringing and without regret, and with it being the best decision, a positive decision.

OP, I wish you good health and I am glad that you are happy with your decision. I hope goes well with you.

This controversy over sadness and relief and how much of either is appropriate is a recurrent issue. It's not just your friend.

That said, it's a controversy that always confused me, ever since the moment I first encountered it. It always felt to me, as a younger 'un, that the consensus was: "termination is a very serious decision. You should only have one if you are utterly certain that this is the right decision, as otherwise you will regret it, and live a wretched life of misery and remorse, etc". Does this ring a bell with anyone else? I remember accepting that narrative completely as a young teen.

And yet, if a woman says, "yep, I'm completely sure about this, and completely sure I won't regret it", people react badly?

Hang on, wait, what?

How come the same people who say that termination is always the wrong choice if a woman has even slightly mixed feelings about it then turn around and criticise women for being too sure about not wanting to continue a pregnancy? And yes, often it is the exact same people.

Certain people act as if a woman being certain about what course of action she wants to take is evidence she deliberately tried to conceive, just so that she could have an abortion. Which is a tad odd. I

It's them, not you, OP. They're a bit dim.