In not being all humble and respectful and all that.(abortion related)

[IdontusuallyNC]

I have had the contraceptive injection twice now obviously I had it done on time and followed all instructions given to me I also usually use condoms I have 3 occasions where condom use has not been optimum all in the same weekend.

I have recently to my horror discovered that I am pregnant, POAS because I feel like crap and it felt like HG not expecting it to be the case but these things happen. Due to the amount of children I have one being tiny the nature of the relationship with my sexual partner and a quite serious history of HG and SPD(all but 1 previous pregnancy) I have booked in to have a TOP on Tuesday.

I'm quite comfortable with my decision and in general tend to be quite matter of fact about things.

My closest friend has gone very weird on me I declined an invitation for Tuesday from her and disclosed why. Ever since she has been upset because I'm not being sad enough she feels I'm being flippant about human life and not respectful.

I'm not entirely sure what she means by this and she has tried to be sympathetic not that it is needed but has mentioned this on a few occasions.

So am I meant to be sad and stuff or is it acceptable to feel positive towards the decision?

embrace Brinkerhoff is often wheeled out to support pro lifers who claim to be feminists. Taking a look at the bigger picture and understanding Brinkerhoff, historically shows a slightly different picture eg. arguing against coercive pressures driving women to abortion. The rights of women to say no to sexual demands and most importantly, for the freedoms that come with the expansion of choices for women.

I would like embrace to come back and explain exactly why its more 'feminist' for me to just wing it and probably die

Shecant because shes full of shit. You fundamentally cannot be a feminist and be anti abortion. Thats like being an offal eating vegan, they are diametricslly opposed positions.
Im sickened that there are so many women here, even thos professing to be pro choice, asserting that you can only have an abortion if youre sad about it, its not acceptable to be just ok with it. Are theses people so arrogant they cant see past their own feelings, or are they just so steepedin the misogyny that makes up our culture theyve bought the only narrative allowable when it comes to termination?

idon't are you having an abortion for medical reasons? i don't understand all the abbreviations in your post you see, but it read to me that you didn't want to be pregnant and weren't fussed about having an abortion. You seem very confident and happy with your choice so I am wondering why what I think even bothers you a jot.

I wasn't referring to you in my post anyways, I was responding to all the pro-choice feminist chanting that was shown throughout this thread that is so popular. The view that it is a women's 'right' to have an abortion - her body her choice - and that is a good thing. It is my personal view that I do not want the right to cause harm to any other living thing. I don't want the right to put meat or dairy in or on my body as it goes either (I am vegan). I think if society supported and respected motherhood and women more then the desire for women to feel they needed an abortion would dramatically reduce, (except for abortions for medical reasons of course). And I think that is what society should working on - making the world a more respectful and supportive place for mothers.

Just my view though, (and several thousands upon thousands of pro-life feminists around the world too).

Many women having abortions are already mothers, embrace.

grocklebox

You fundamentally cannot be a feminist and be anti abortion

Yes you can.

I think if society supported and respected motherhood and women more then the desire for women to feel they needed an abortion would dramatically reduce

No feminist has ever disputed this, embrace. Thing is, society doesn't do this - so why wish to remove one of the few options society does afford reluctantly pregnant women?

It's a bit off to argue the toss so emotively wrt OP's position, when you hadn't even read her posts.

Don't hold your breath idont I remember asking on another thread where posters agreed that abortion is fine in cases of rape/mother's life being at risk how much physical (nevermind emotional) damage is acceptable. For example I've lost 4 teeth to acid damage from vomiting, my throat is full of scars and i've a messed up digestive system and know that an HG pregnancy means extremely low iron and disordered eating but is that a reasonable amount of suffering to accept for a pregnancy I didn't want? That's before we get into 'social' reasons like being able to feed and clothe existing children as well as anymore.

Sadly I don't think abortion is black and white. A 'good' reason for one woman isn't for another. No woman should be judged for making the best choice for her and anyone judging needs to take a good long look in the mirror.

Society being a better place for women would reduce the number of abortions. As well as supporting a woman's right to abort up to term if she wants, I support a woman's right to refuse to terminate a pregnancy, even if she risks dying because what happens to her body is UP TO HER.
And Dinosaur, I frankly don't believe you about the loads and loads of women who have abortions at 40 weeks for fun (given your already loaded and hyperbolic posts). And as to the women being forced into late terminations by abusive men, the solution to that is much more help and support for women to leave abusive relationships, not restricting the rights of other women.
THe ongoing problem with foetus-worshippers -and why they are misogynistic idiots - is that they are happy to see women suffer, struggle and die rather than have bodily autonomy. Very few anti-choice activists do much to support mothers and children; most lose all interest in a foetus once it's born. And, interestingly, a lot of them are opposed to contraception, opposed to any kind of state-funding for childcare, uninterested in the underfunding of maternity care and obsessed with policing the behaviour of pregnant women whether the women intend to terminate the pregnancy or continue it.
The root of all anti-choice activism and propaganda is hatred of women. It's all about reducing them to the status of walking incubators and stripping them of their rights - the right to work, travel, eat and drink what they want, choose whom they have sex with...
THis is why I have no respect whatsoever for people who whine about other people choosing to terminate pregnancies. I have no respect for racists or homophobes either: you don't deserve respect. You're idiots.

I don't particularly want Motherhood to be Sanctified. Too much bloody sanctification of it around already, IMO. I am more than my reproductive capacities, and I would like to be respected for other things, myself.

You really cant embrace. Youre kidding yourself. You cannot be a feminist and force women to gave babies they dont wantto have. Its like telling us youre a pacifist thst shoots people.

Does that make northern Ireland more feminist than the rest of the UK?
One of the support workers I spoke to described Ireland as being only slightly better than Texas.

I've just booked my flights. I had to move the procedure by a week to give me more flexibility with childcare and travel costs. And I've had to book counselling to lower my consultation costs a bit more. For a decision I've already thought about in great detail. For a long time. And already made.

Go Northern Ireland. You're fucking brilliant. So feminist.

But it's all sorted now.

It's all about reducing them to the status of walking incubators and stripping them of their rights - the right to work, travel, eat and drink what they want, choose whom they have sex with...

What a desperately sad way to view a growing life inside you. A child should not be seen as a burden, something that strips you of YOUR rights. It isn't 'us' against 'them' FFS. I am leaving this thread as all the talk about women having the right to full-term abortions, and anyone who sees abortion as desperately sad for both mother and unborn child is an 'idiot' etc etc is just way too upsetting for me.

My SIL (who was my best friend) had an abortion early in a pregnancy.

At the time, I was quite against abortions (didn't know the facts to be completely honest) but the whole experience was an eye opener for me.

I decided to go with her, because although I didn't think what she was doing was right, she was still my best friend and I felt that I should support her.

I listened to her feelings, and I realised very shortly after that this was infact the right decision for her.

I could see how relieved she was after, and my feelings of this poor little baby being killed soon changed to a much more realistic view that actually this wasn't a bad thing, but infact the best thing for her.

I am glad that I went through the process with her, I think that it made me a better person, perhaps more tolerant in a way.

I would not personally have an abortion unless I was facing very certain circumstances, but I now totally understand why she was so calm and matter of fact about it.

That being said, I think your friend should be more supportive, but perhaps you also need to take the time to support her and explain why you feel this way?

Best of luck op.

What about the rights of the children already here embrace?
idonts children need their mum and my children need me. I'm still in recovery from pnd and it would be too great a stress on me to have another child so soon. As well as needing to feed and clothe my DSes that are already here. Finances can only stretch so far.

Glad you got sorted Enormouse.

Our wee country is great, huh?

Very few anti-choice activists do much to support mothers and children; most lose all interest in a foetus once it's born.

Yeaaaah I've noticed that too.

Sentimental and controlling hypocrisy.

I understand that some people may find it difficult to comprehend how someone can have a termination without feeling negatively about it, but that doesn't mean that they can't. The only feeling I had was a total sense of relief.

It's fine to feel relieved and matter of fact about the decision, even happy not to have to go through with an unwanted pregnancy. Your friend perhaps mistakenly takes this for lack of respect.

There is still the fact that a life that is being terminated (hence the necessity of a procedure to do just that) and I'm sure nobody is ever (well rarely I'd hope) happy about that part.

Oh it's brilliant here assassin. Want to know what's hilarious - I was actually born in England and have only been in NI for a few years? I've been an English citizen waaaaay longer than I've been an NI one.

are you having an abortion for medical reasons? i don't understand all the abbreviations in your post you see, but it read to me that you didn't want to be pregnant and weren't fussed about having an abortion. You seem very confident and happy with your choice so I am wondering why what I think even bothers you a jot

Primarily yes HG is a pregnancy related illness that can kill the mother granted not often but it's safe to say that when HG has previously caused you to go blind and have organ failure lose teeth have a feeding tube and go from a size 16 to clothes designed for a skinny 7yo have your family told you are unlikely to live that it will get that hairy again.

If I wanted to have a baby I would take advance steps to plan it with my consultant and make sure it did not have a chance to get hold. And I would have unprotected sex with a supportive partner or obtain other forms of support.

You are not a feminist you just think you are

Also dropyoursword You aren't being punished. Life isn't that simple or 'fair', that for every possibly-controversial decision there will be a punishment. It sounds like you did the right thing for you at that time. It's a lot more responsible to make a reasoned choice and wait til the time is right to begin trying to become a mother.

I wish you every luck in trying for a baby.

I am pro life and a feminist

As someone who is trained as an unplanned pregnancy counselor, who has had an abortion myself, and has volunteered helping post abortive women for the last 2 years I have come to a few conclusions:

1. The woman often (often not always) doesn't actually want to have an abortion but feels like there is no other choice/way out of her situation.

2. Women, myself included in this, can feel depressed, anxious and in a state of grieving after an abortion. This is often dismissed as pro life nonsense but I think it is doing women a great disservice to say that they are unlikely to feel any emotional pain/need emotional support after an abortion. I definately feel that there should be so much more in the way of help and mental health support for women who have had an abortion. Often the only support that seems to be available is counselling from the clinic, if women are suffering post abortion they aren't going to want to go back to the place where it happened are they? Another option is to go to a GP and say that they are struggling but because of the consensus that women should be grateful for exercising their right to have an abortion and that most people are fine after this puts many women off ever getting help,and means that they suffer in silence.

3. The lack of pre-abortion/unplanned pregnancy counselling is absolutely shocking. As someone that has had an abortion I was never offered counselling and feel that so many women would benefit from having a sit down with someone that is impartial (ie not the clinic, who benefit financially from the women choosing to have an abortion) and talking through her options. Often when you find out that you have an unplanned pregnancy you go into a state of shock and just go onto auto-pilot to do whatever you can to get through the situation and it is only later when you think about it rationally that you may realise that you did not make the best choice. I can't speak for the organisation as a whole, but I did train as an unplanned pregnancy counselor and the course was fantastic, non-bias and helped us to help the client look at all the options. All of the people on the course did it because they care about women, as volunteers unlike the people from the clinic who are getting paid for it.

4. There are some extreme loopholes in the law around abortion. Under the Abortion Act 2 doctors need to certify that an abortion is in your best interests under 1 of the 3 possible critera - most are done under the criterea that it is in the interests of the physical or mental health of the mother and that having an abortion would be better/less damaging than not having an abortion. Funny thing is, I, like most people in abortion clinics never saw one doctor never mind two. The doctors that signed off the paperwork never met me in person simply signed the paperwork to make the abortion legal without ever meeting me, talking to me or looking at my circumstance and whether it was in my interests. This is typical for many or all abortion clinics in the UK. The doctors sit in the back room signing off piles of paper without so much as a second glance on whether the woman does actually fulfill the critera for the abortion to be legal whereas the women only actually ever speaks to nurses.

I love women and I feel that they should have better options than an abortion, should be properly supported through unplanned pregnancy and if they do choose to have an abortion to have better aftercare.

I felt no emotion about my abortion. It was a horrible procedure (it was a long time ago!) and all I feel about it is memories of pain and illness. No emotion other than that.

Another person here who has had an abortion (ten years ago now) , was relieved afterwards and has never regretted it for a moment.

I feel sad that it had to happen and would rather not have been in that position but I was, and am very grateful that it was an option.