In not being all humble and respectful and all that.(abortion related)

[IdontusuallyNC]

I have had the contraceptive injection twice now obviously I had it done on time and followed all instructions given to me I also usually use condoms I have 3 occasions where condom use has not been optimum all in the same weekend.

I have recently to my horror discovered that I am pregnant, POAS because I feel like crap and it felt like HG not expecting it to be the case but these things happen. Due to the amount of children I have one being tiny the nature of the relationship with my sexual partner and a quite serious history of HG and SPD(all but 1 previous pregnancy) I have booked in to have a TOP on Tuesday.

I'm quite comfortable with my decision and in general tend to be quite matter of fact about things.

My closest friend has gone very weird on me I declined an invitation for Tuesday from her and disclosed why. Ever since she has been upset because I'm not being sad enough she feels I'm being flippant about human life and not respectful.

I'm not entirely sure what she means by this and she has tried to be sympathetic not that it is needed but has mentioned this on a few occasions.

So am I meant to be sad and stuff or is it acceptable to feel positive towards the decision?

What I don't get is those who aren't pro choice. So they theoretically stop me from having a termination. Is that it? Are they helping me with money, child care, relationship issues, housing? Or is it just well done, you didn't have a termination and off you go happy to have stopped it?
Don't worry, mine was a forced termination, I got PTSD, had counselling for a year, became suicidal and take medication. I regret it every single day - because it wasn't MY choice

I've read the OPs posts and deliberately none of the others. I can guess a lot of what has been said.
You feel the way you feel and that is fine. It is an emotive subject and your friend feels the way she feels and that's fine too. You know each other well enough to be honest. Neither of you can change how you feel. I'm sure given time you will both get over this difference in feelings.

My only concern would be you describe her as your closest friend. Someone who knows you really well. (no-one here does - we can read what you write, come at from our own point of view, with our own agendas but we don't know you). You have been involved with her TOP. She knows how you behaved then.
She may be concerned about you - your behaviour may seem out of character. She may feel like you haven't really come to terms with what is happening as well as you think you have. You have made a completely rational, sensible decision. No regrets, no worries. But we don't always work like that subconsciously.

Not saying that's true at all but I think you need to to speak to her again and ask her why she feels so uncomfortable. Doesn't mean your decision will or should change just you will definitely be mentally in the right place to make it.
Good Luck

So sorry you had to go through that Lucy

Dinosaur if you can point out where I've called you or anyone else a "thickie" I'll wholeheartedly apologise; I've maintained throughout that this is my opinion, just as you have yours.

Women can be abused into a whole host of situations. I was abused into bulimia by my ex-boyfriend, and forced to allow him to touch me and treat me as his property. It would be wrong to punish women for being abused, by limiting access to diets, criminalising bulimia and making it illegal for women to be touched consensually, because there will always be people who abuse other people.

In the same vein, it would be wrong to strip women of their free choice and body autonomy, because there is the potential for abuse.

It is my personal opinion that there are no 'degrees' to being pro-choice, and that not being pro-choice is inherently anti-women - or rather, anti-body autonomy, but particularly relating to women. Not that it makes people "thickies", as you charmingly put it.

Lucy I know how that feels. From NI myself and earlier this year found out at 20 week scan my baby had a fatal foetal abnormality, delays in official diagnosis meant I missed the deadline to go to England for a self-referred termination. Had to carry my daughter until her heart stopped when I was 35 weeks pregnant at the end of May this year.
It's a nightmare over here, doctors aren't even allowed to talk about termination of pregnancy in fear of being accused of criminal behaviour. I have since learnt that I could have gone to England, at a significant cost, and have the pregnancy terminated but this information was never given to me when I needed it.

Sorry for the slight thread hijack op.

I can get behind the legal rights of a woman to end a pregnancy up to term, but not to deliberately and actively destroy the fetus in the process. This is different from the death of an early fetus as an inescapable result of termination of pregnancy.

At late stages (which I agree are extremely rare), the fetus has to be delivered anyway. So it would be a case of deliver the baby, and if it dies it dies, and if it is old enough to live outside the mother, it lives.

Of course, this then leads to a new arena of controversy, but this is not insurmountable. For me, its the only way I can reconcile the legal and humanitarian rights of women with concern for foetuses that are capable of surviving as babies. As I think we all agree, this would be a rare thing anyway.

unlucky83

Thank you for posting, that's a very well thought out post and a very good way to read threads.

I had initially considered that but think no. She's quite used to my approach to things. I'm almost 100% certain that's she's just decided she's pro choice but only if you are suitably contrite and Sad about it.

I've just been catching up on American state law, which appears to be making 'progress' (towards the Middle Ages) in many places. Women have been found guilty of murder for having miscarriages, having disabled babies, and for having tried to commit suicide while pregnant. As these laws move rapidly towards defining human life as existing from the moment of conception - as Annunziata maintains - any woman who could be pregnant risks being found a murderer, should anything go wrong.

Stop and think about that for a minute. Do you know you're pregnant the day after you've had sex? No. (You might be one of those women who 'know' you are, but do you know you're not?) So let's say you have sex and, during the next few weeks, have a drink or smoke a spliff or take your epilepsy meds. A few more weeks along, you miscarry. You could be sent down for life.

This is where sentimental advocacy for the 'unborn' leads.

Lucy

At late stages (which I agree are extremely rare), the fetus has to be delivered anyway. So it would be a case of deliver the baby, and if it dies it dies, and if it is old enough to live outside the mother, it lives

It depends at what late stage you mean. Medication and suction can still be used at over 20 weeks.

Do you not think that may be a bit like a massive gamble with people's lives of course by that point it would be both lives given that a birth would have happened.

BabyFace, thank you for posting. I have often thought about you. I'm so upset that you had to go through it, too, Lucy, and for the other posters whose bodily autonomy has been dismissed by medics & lawyers :(

gallic

Its entirely possible I'm mistaken but I'm sure I saw it on the news somewhere.

A woman was prosecuted for drinking alcohol when pregnant in the states fairly recently

Moomin - it was solid who called people morons, not you. Nor did I say it was you.

And to whoever asked, no, psychopaths don't make good mums, but the babies were adopted out anyway.

babyfaced

Its not a derail or a hijack at all.its a very valuable contribution and one that I'm very glad you shared.

I had wondered how you were getting on and cannot describe how much I thought about you and the pain the country you live in forced you to deal with.

TBFA. . What can we do, from a England, to help women in Ireland? Can you think of anything? It's horrific. No one should have to go through that or the stress/hassle/expense of coming here for a termination, especially not one where the foetus/mother are in pain.

Oh come on Annun. Op could be seriously ill or even die, leaving her current DCs motherless. This pg is completely unplanned and the result of a double contraception failure. Wtf is there to not be matter of fact about?

Op, hearing from Lucy and BabyFace - thank fuck you live here. Thank fuck.

Ps nice to hear from you babyFace I hope you are doing ok x

Babyface - I remember you from earlier threads .

OP, YANBU.

Do you not think that may be a bit like a massive gamble with people's lives of course by that point it would be both lives given that a birth would have happened.

Being pregnant is a gamble and terminating a pregnancy is a gamble, and I do believe women should have the right to say, "I don't want to be pregnant," and have that medically respected, thus selecting the gamble of their choice.

I just don't think that should necessarily extend to the right to say what happens to the foetus, other than its expulsion from your own body. I am talking specifically about very late term abortions here, where the only reason the fetus does not survive is because its heart is deliberately stopped beforehand (or a few other methods unnecessary for me to go into here). I think a woman should have the right to demand its delivery, but not specifically its death. If it dies anyway as a result of being delivered at whatever stage, so be it. Obviously at very late stages, they would more likely survive.

However, I am firmly in the realm of very rare happenings, so this is probably all far more theoretical, but it is how I personally can reconcile the issue of mother's rights vs late-term viability.

I linked to this support organisation previously, chipping the abortion support network if you can do anything to help them, please do. They do a tremendous amount for Irish and northern irish women.

lucy I am so very sorry for what happened to you and your baby.

Regarding the OP's situation it seems that you could make an argument that it is highly irresponsible to the existing children to carry on a pregnancy when there is a real risk of maternal death.

Children need their mothers. To put the life of a foetus over the needs of existing children makes no sense to me.

Op, hearing from Lucy and BabyFace - thank fuck you live here. Thank fuck

I quite agree. The reality is if I did live in Ireland I would be at significant risk of dying.and I would be just another dead incubator spread across the front page of the guardian.

I occasionally work in Ireland I'm very glad is such a infrequent event that I haven't been in months

babyface too, I'm so sorry. Savage inhumanity in the name of God.

I just donated Enormouse and I'm also going to investigate if the clinic I am attending on Tuesdays accepts ongoing donations especially to assist with the discounted rates they offer to women from Ireland.

Thanks everyone that mentioned me, I'm doing well! Have joined an activist group and am doing my bit to attempt to get the draconian laws here changed. Might take a while mind you...

Chipping - to answer your question about what people in England can do, my answer is, I don't know. The problem in NI and Ireland is that law is still dictated by religion. Many politicians come from fairly hardcore religious denominations and use that as their justification for allowing these laws to stand.

Access to abortion should be free, safe and legal. Available for as early as possible but as late as necessary. Women should never be forced to endure a pregnancy against their wishes.

Access to abortion should be free, safe and legal. Available for as early as possible but as late as necessary. Women should never be forced to endure a pregnancy against their wishes.

Amen to that.

Glad to hear you are ok, TBFA - what a horrendous thing to go through.

Yes, I would like to second Enormouse and sing the praises of the Abortion Support Network. They provide a vital service to women here. While we wait for the law to change they provide an invaluable service.