To think that a 12year old doing this is wrong?

[disneymum3]

Today I found out that my 12 year old niece is sexually active with her boyfriend. I know that her mum (my sister in law) knows what she is doing, and hasn't said anything to her / isn't bothered.
I feel that this is wrong and she shouldn't be doing this sort of thing at the age of 12. The thing is I don't know what to do.
Any advice on this will be greatly received TIA.

I don't know if 12-year old girls are different, but as a 12 year old boy I absolutely wanted to have sex, for exactly the same reasons I still want to decades later.

The points people make in response to this about immaturity and inability to plan ahead etc. may all true, but none of them refute the fact that a 12-year old who wants sex is not necessarily biologically or sociologically or psychologically or in any other way abnormal or unhealthy. It doesn't necessarily mean there has been anything wrong with their upbringing or parenting.

I'm not saying they should be allowed to, merely refuting the idea that there must have been some sort of failure or defect if they want to.

Ghost what choc said was that kids are just like us, horny. That they have sexual desires and it is therefore inevitable that a child of 12 will be having sex, and what's more there's nothing you can do to stop them.

All justification, justification.

Most people on here are horrified at the idea that one of their children - bot or girl - would have sex below the age of consent.

So so sad that those children cannot count on their parents to protect them. What is a parent for if they can't fulfil this most basic function? Even animals protect their young, to the death if necessary.

Needs I don't believe the measures I would take would be viewed as abuse. But perhaps you have a different perspective on parenting. If the subject of offence were serious drugs, would you not take every step possible to prevent them from accessing them? How would that fit in with your idea of protection/abuse theory?
And I am a firm believer in education, it does a great deal in guiding a child to be a good person as they reach their majority. I know you probably think you know better, but I am 31, and ds has just turned 19 (pregnancy a result of a similar situation the ops neice is in) He is a great boy, and my dd 11, is growing and maturing just as well.
Just for you to consider... would your opinion on this be the same if the male was 30, or 40? Because your argument is that the girl is just horny for her boyfriend, what if she was horny for a 30 year old? You say the sil is doing good by providing condoms, does this mean that the 12 yo is ok to sleep with the 30yo because he wears a condom? You could argue that he knows better as he is an adult, but you seem to suggest that she is mature enough for sex. So would you not think he could say the same?

As a 12 year old boy you may have wanted sex, but then you would not be the one becoming pregnant at a dangerously young age.

The child is not deviant for being interested in sex and developing sexuality, the parent IS a failure and negligent if they do not ensure their children are protected from the reality of the experience until they are old enough to handle all the possible issues and consequences of a sexual relationship.

NOT least, parents should be confident a young person could recognise exploitation in any form, and refuse consent if they are even pressured into sex.

www.cla.purdue.edu/english/theory/psychoanalysis/freud.html

intresting

just wondering something... if a 12 year old girl/boy gets an erection. does this mean they have sexual desire. or is it just a physical thing?

as a 12 year old. he may have wanted sex. the 12 year old girl may have also wanted to have sex. which it why the mother of the 12 year old has mad sure they are at least using them.

its still not a nice thought though to think your 12 year old is having sex i would hate it if my 12 year old was having sex i would not just give them a packet of condoms and say be careful. i would talk to her/him about it. ask why he/she wants to do it. if they want to do it. im my case i would have him/her speak to my gp as my gp is ace. when my daughter was under 16 i used to show my face in the docs room then leave so she can talk alone. i like to think my kids can talk to me about anything. but also like the thought of there being someone on the outside that they can talk to if need be. ie the gp

When I was 12 I probably would have enjoyed a nice naggin of vodka. For some reason, my parents never supplied it to me despite the fact that I would have liked it for the same reasons that I thought vodka was great when I got older.

You appear to be forgetting that children have rights and that protecting them from one thing does not give you a free ride to abuse them in other ways.

Not giving them free reign to do as they please isn't abuse.

You might want to learn what the word abuse really means before glibly slinging it around like a 13 year old who just learned how to swear.

Emotional Abuse to a child involves:

• Ignoring. Nope, you're certainly not ignoring them if you're making sure they're not getting into trouble.

• Rejecting. Nope again. You are responding to their needs and loving them by making sure they make good decisions for their future.

• Isolating. Refusing them unsupervised access to their boyfriend is not isolating them. Teenagers are quite capable of having fun with friends while their parents are still in the house.

• Exploiting or corrupting. Stopping them from sex is opposite.

• Neglect, verbal assault, and terrorizing your child. Again, the answer is no.

Discipline and supervision are not abusive. Otherwise, every teen in the world would be being abused. I'm sure they feel that way though because they don't like being told "no".

I completely support what Bulb and whats have stated as their approaches in this situation. Absolutely the first point of responsibility is with the parents and they should do whatever it takes to stop their 12 year old DD from having sex. Obviously there are those here that think differently, but I don't. I personally haven't been in this situation but have been around some 12-13 year old girls that with, or without guidance and actions from their parents, could well have engaged in sexual activity at too young an age.

But whats does have personal experience and I think that counts for a lot in determining what advice has most credence.

If you go back to the original posts, you will realise that the started as a discussion about a child who is quite vulnerable as she lives in a household with few boundaries and a mother who appears unable or unwilling to put boundaries and guidance into place. Also the family already have ss involved in their lives and op has contacted them. So quote obviously this is a family where the issue of the 12 year old having a sexual relationship is part of wider issues within this family and hopefully they LL get addressed.

Emotional abuse can incorporate many many things and that list is not exhaustive. Not allowing a older child privacy and pretty much confining them (as face it that's what you would have to do to to prevent one whose very determined) would be likely to be and could very easily meet the significant harm bar.You would also be highly likely to very quickly end up with a child that is outside of parental control and at that age it would very rapidly meet the requirements for a care order.

Where have I said that discipline is abuse, I haven't but I have said that some methods of discipline when long term are likely to be.

At no time have I said it is acceptable conduct at no time have I said it should not be dealt with,at no time have I advocated not reporting it.

Reporting it is a very good idea because the child will be provided with the education the mother appears to be unable to give.

whatisina if the other party involved was 30 it would be a completely different matter and there are many more availible tools to deal with it the ones more likely to be effective rely on restricting an adult criminal.

If the situation was about drugs one would hope you would utilise a qualified medical support service who with children and young people tend to use the educate and support and treat with patients consent approach rather than forced.

There are a great many very good reasons why we bust a gut avoiding children ending up in a restrictive justice system or treating them like they are in one these days and that does often mean not being especially punitive with sexually active children (where both parties are unexploited kids) at no point does this mean throwing up our arms and saying "off you pop young person have as much sex as you like we are all very happy with it" it just means being realistic and placing a lot of energy into trying to change the wants of the child.

Ghostspirit I'm not sure whether Freud's theories have any relevance at all here, but he did agree that sexual desire is an instinct designed to promote the survival of the human species.

There is a very common myth going round which says that because a girl has had a period she is ready to have babies and should therefore be sexually active. It's a bizarre thing but it seems that a lot of people actually think like this.

The human body (and the survival of the species) doesn't work like that. Your child isn't physically grown until 18 and is still neurologically an adolescent until their early 20s. I do wish they would teach these things in science. If humans all got pregnant at 12 the species would have died out a long time ago.

Another thing - Local authorities targets to reduce teenage pregnancies tend to focus on giving out contraception but they don't do anything to prevent them getting sexually active in the first place. This must be written into Childrens Service strategies or we will end up with a lot of similar cases and a lot of young men on the sex offenders register.

I agree that the particular family described must have wider issues and already have SS involvement. But the scenario of having a 12 year old DD or a 12-14 DS (for example) who has become sexually active or who might be considering it, or thinks it's ok to, or has found a friendship group that does so is a scenario that many parents may face.

Some threads posted are what we would do if faced with that scenario and some/many of us would hope to deal with it without involving outside agencies and what else that might bring. We would also hope to deal with any other situation that might be self-harmful for our children to be involved in, including drugs.

The more that parents and their family and friends feel able to guide their youngsters through such difficult times the less reliance they have on outside professionals and agencies and therefore these same professionals and agencies have more resources to help those youngsters that don't have any family and friends to support them.

Anyway OP I'm really glad you've contacted the social worker. This could be a very important clue to another matter that you may not know about regarding either the non contact father or the 'boyfriend'.

If humans all got pregnant at 12 the species would have died out a long time ago.

umm, I think you will find that getting pregnant as soon as you hit sexual maturity is exactly what did happen for many centuries.

Many millennia..

It's only over the last few hundred years we have applied 'moral' standards to sex. In the vast majority of human history childhood ended much earlier than today.

Not allowing a older child privacy and pretty much confining them (as face it that's what you would have to do to to prevent one whose very determined) would be likely to be and could very easily meet the significant harm bar.

12 isn't an older child though, the law doesn't even see them as an older child as demonstrated by consent laws. An older child is 15+.

If my child was hellbent on having sex, I'd be hellbent on stopping them. Even if it meant putting her in an all girls boarding school where she'd be getting strict supervision from teachers who's full time job was to watch them. Just like if she was on drugs I'd be forcing her into a rehab center where she'd be under strict supervision to stop it.

Considering that you as the parent will be footing the bill to raise a second baby at that age, I think it's quite reasonable to crack down. Not to mention there are serious and permanent health risks to having a baby or even an abortion at so young. A pregnant child could very well die or have serious complications. I think that's worth going to the ends of the earth to prevent.

Privacy does not mean no supervision or even being allowed to hang out with friends where no adult is present. It means they have the right to use the bathroom with the doors closed and get dressed without anyone watching. That's it.

If she doesn't have the responsibility to handle anymore freedom than that, then that's all the freedom she'd get until she could prove otherwise. As she demonstrated that she was more mature and could be trusted more, I'd give her privileges back. I wouldn't be harping on what a terrible and shameful daughter she was every night. But I would be actively involved in getting her life turned around, even if that meant talking to teachers to make sure she was attending classes.

Frankly, I'd rather my child feel hard done by and "abused" than having to live with a terrible consequence from her childish decisions the rest of her life. Hopefully as she got older, she'd see that my restrictions came from a place of love.

But she certainly wouldn't be thanking me for just letting her get pregnant or hooked on drugs. In fact I can't think of a single person who as an adult has thanked their parents for letting them run amok and get into trouble. Most wished their parents cared enough to stop them.

I'm amazed you got to talk to a social worker on a Saturday, I'm a foster carer and never manage to catch one on a weekday in office hours when i need to talk to them.

No ONE no one professionally trained and working within safeguarding guidelines would ever EVER let an under 13 year old having sex go without reporting

because under 13 year olds CAN NOT LEGALLY CONSENT TO SEX so any sex or sexual activities they are engaged in are illegal - none consensual and rape/abuse

which all of us have a duty to report and prevent

we are not talking about 14/15 year olds here - 12 is under-age and not able or legally allowed to consent

What is all this 'if the genders were reversed' stuff? This isn't a hypothetical question, it's about an actual 12 year old girl. She isn't going to turn into a boy just so we can all talk about sexual coercion of boys instead. And anyway, as far as I'm aware the legalities are the same for either gender, so yes, it would be the exact same situation, half dozen posters who have asked the same question. I find it quite odd that whenever there is a thread like this, some people seem desperate to derail the thread and talk about boys/men in that situation instead. Is it out of discomfort?

umm, I think you will find that getting pregnant as soon as you hit sexual maturity is exactly what did happen for many centuries

As indeed was many of them dying in childbirth. There are significant risks to mother and child in teenage pregnancies.

If humans all got pregnant at 12 the species would have died out a long time ago.

umm, I think you will find that getting pregnant as soon as you hit sexual maturity is exactly what did happen for many centuries.

Upon which form of science is that based? Most young women would have died in childbirth and their offspring would not have survived. It is far more advantageous to the species to have a healthy fully developed woman giving birth. Our 'morals' are actually based on practicality and survival, not prudishness.

Also remember that menstruating at 8-12 years old is a recent thing, and as little as 50 years ago average age was about 15.

One theory is that there is a good and steady source of food to store up fat for a pregnancy. In countries where food isn't as abundant, the average age of menstruation and sexual maturity is a few years later.

So having babies when you hit sexual maturity years ago is true, but that age was not 12 it was closer to 15-16.

I have a 12 year old dd. She doesn't have boyfriends, boys are still a bit icky, she refuses to change clothes in front of anyone, has periods but "isn't ready" to try tampons. Maybe she will have a first kiss in a year or two. Her dozens of friends are mostly the same - a few crushes and that's it.

A 12 year old having sex is so far from normal it's scary. A pregnancy at 12 is horrifying. Dd still needs me to help brush her hair - she's a little girl in many ways.

I'd be calling SS without hesitation.