To think that a 12year old doing this is wrong?

[disneymum3]

Today I found out that my 12 year old niece is sexually active with her boyfriend. I know that her mum (my sister in law) knows what she is doing, and hasn't said anything to her / isn't bothered.
I feel that this is wrong and she shouldn't be doing this sort of thing at the age of 12. The thing is I don't know what to do.
Any advice on this will be greatly received TIA.

wine that could make sense. maybe the school does tell someone if there child is under a certain age. but maybe not the parents. im not 100% sure how confidential things are kept when a child/teenager. i thought it was pretty much same as adults ie if a live is in danger. probably not black and white. and pretty complicated. but like you say i would have thought someone has to know even if not the actual parent

....ends up pregnant. Pregnancy terminated would mean that the child has to grow into adulthood with the guilt. Pregnancy kept would mean a very poor continuation of childhood, propelling into responsibility way too fast, lack of social development, affected education etc....'
..and that is why the mother is making the girl has condoms.Youi can say don't have sex til you are blue in the face.You can limit opportunities, but all you will succeed in doing is making the child more devious.
And all this talk of exploitation, not valuing herself etc.has it not occurred to you that they are having sex for the same reason we do- because they are horny for one another.

ChocLover Uhm yes it has, having been through exactly this (didn't terminate)
Yes, the mother may be providing condoms, but they are not 100% effective and even less so when used improperly. My dd still needs help to wash her hair through properly (to be fair it is incredibly long) there is no way I would trust her to being using efficient contraception at 12, especially if she was too immature to understand why sex is not a good idea at her age.
Regardless, bad parenting got them in this situation. If the mother had been more active in educating her children, and stopped this happening upon first discovering it, this problem would not be here now. We do not (well most of us) do not simply go out having sex because we are 'horny' for someone. We date, get to know each other and build relationships before simply jumping into bed. Given they are 12 and 14, just how much do you think they understand of true relationships? Of valuing the other person for the contribution they make to your happiness, the joy you get from making the same contribution to the other?

Ghosts as a school nurse I can assure you if a 12yr old attends one of our health clinic drop ins for sexual health advice or contraception policy is to refer to social services or even contact police due to the law. Over 13yrs it depends on situation n we use Frazer guidelines. So yes a 12yr old can attend the clinic (most school nurses run health drop ins so they can come for anything from emotional health, physical health to sexual health) but doesn't mean they are given condoms - just because a child or young person asks for condoms doesn't mean they get them!!

There is a huge difference between a 12 year old teenager and a 14/15 year old one. In a twelve year old it is clear cut child protection. Yes they start to experiment with looks and makeup and looking older etc but that does not mean they are actually ready to engage in actual sexual activity or have capacity to consent. Some 14/15 year olds are far more mature and I think in some cases have capacity plus as they are far more independent will start to be sexually active which may not be great from an adult perspective but as long as partner is same age, no other vulnerabilities and good knowledge of contraception and sexual health will happen.
DS one was in a very committed relationship at 14 1/2, by 15 I knew they were having sex as I found a used condom under his window on the garden. After that I was not happy but went to family planning and got huge amounts of condoms to be left for open access in the bathroom.
My now near 16yr old DS2 has not shown any interest in girls so far. But also je is not as developed as his brother was at that age.
However while I do think teenage sex is fairly normal, sexual activity in young teenagers is clearly a child protection issue. I also think in societies like the Netherlands or Scandinavia where you have excellent sex education and a culture of openness, sexual confidence is much higher and that reduces the need/pressure to engage in anything until you are ready.

whatsina

What do you think may happen if your child phones say childline reporting that level of control and supervision? Or if you request that a school continues it in your absence?

Do you think she will be told its perfectly acceptable to be treated like that given the circumstances.

*"at my daughters school the school nurse gives out condoms. just have to go and ask for them and they give them. and parents are not told"

To 12 yr olds?

This is how it works in my with youth workers and the like . They have been told if there are any issues that they are suspicious of ( eg exploitation through grooming - our town have issues similar to those that were in the news about Rotherham recently) but gf/bf or bf/bf relationships were there is a close age gap a blind eye is turned.

east so say a 12 year old asked for condoms she was told no. then went out had sex anyway and used no protection?

its very difficult. like others have said when do people know if the 12 year old wants to do it or if its because of pressure. maybe its been made to sound normal. and loads of 12 year olds are doing it.

then again she could truly want to.

You can limit opportunities, but all you will succeed in doing is making the child more devious.

Oh what a load of shit. You can make your child more resentful, and that's fine. But you most certainly can stop your child from going out anywhere without strict supervision. You're the parent, not a friend. If your 12-14 year old child is continuously having sex, you've fucked it up as a parent. You can limit opportunities. You may not have a 100% success rate, but to not try is unfathomable. I agree with what, you do come down like a ton of bricks. Part of parenting is saving your child from themselves.

Personally even at 17, while my child is living at home I'll be limiting opportunities. She certainly won't be having sex under my roof and her boyfriend won't be spending the night. She can do it elsewhere. When she's a legal adult, the rules will change and hopefully by that time she'll have enough maturity to understand what a healthy relationship is.

And all this talk of exploitation, not valuing herself etc.has it not occurred to you that they are having sex for the same reason we do- because they are horny for one another.

You mean "we" as in the adults posting on this forum? The adults that have the emotional and mental maturity to be able to deal with the emotional and physical aspects of a healthy relationship? Surely you're not comparing a 12 year old or even a 14 year old for that matter to an adult. A 12 year old does not understand the full implications of what she's doing. She can rote memorize a sex ed book all she wants, she doesn't have the emotional maturity to understand the full implications, and she doesn't have the mental maturity to think ahead and understand just what having a baby (or abortion) actually entails.

So no, it has not "occurred to me" that they're having sex for the same reason we are, because they're not.

What do you think may happen if your child phones say childline reporting that level of control and supervision?

If a SS worker came asking why I took the door off my child's bedroom, I'd tell them exactly why. Good luck removing a child because the parents won't let them have sex. You can't honestly believe that a SS worker would tell a parent to supervise their out of control child less.

I'd be doing the same thing if I found out DD was into drugs. I wouldn't just let her do them. When she proved she could be trusted with less supervision, I'd slowly give her privileges back.

Needs So what would the child say 'I am 12 and my mum is trying to stop me having sex by keeping too closer eye on me' I guess that is probably a bit ridiculous, but I would probably have involved a SW and counsellor to support me in stopping such behaviour, so childline would only be able to explore an avenue I have already taken. I think as long as you keep communicating with SS and your children, then you can not be seen as abusive. Just a parent with their dc best interests at heart. I wonder which behaviour is more concerning to authorities? As I grew up, I was almost permanently grounded until I left home, my SW didn't think much of it to be fair.
Also, I think that if a child is too young to understand simple concepts such as 'it is for your own good' (when it really is I mean) and 'it is illegal' then they are too young to be having sex.

'So no, it has not "occurred to me" that they're having sex for the same reason we are, because they're not.'

Are you saying a 12 yr old can't have sexual desires?that is why i have sex and I guess that is why these kids are too.

Thanks Bulbasaur You are much better at making clear points than I am. I think my head starts screaming at me, trying to voice every single thing I felt as a child and growing up, and everything I feel now that I have children of my own.

Are you saying a 12 yr old can't have sexual desires?that is why i have sex and I guess that is why these kids are too.

If you have the same immature mentality to sex as a 12 year old, you are incredibly stunted emotionally. Any adult that is on the same emotional and mental level as a 12 year old probably has a legitimate mental disorder and I don't even mean that in the derogatory sense. It is not normal for an adult to think like a child.

I know you are more mature than just "I want to have sex" you probably think ahead, you are able to emotionally connect to your partner, you have the ability to give informed consent. So no. You do not have sex for the same reasons a 12 year old would. You understand what you are doing and getting into and that alone separates your from a child.

A five year old has desires to play with fire. You don't give him a box of fucking matches. Or say "Well, a five year old wants to play with fire for the same reasons you do!".

i don't think there is a clear answer we can all fix things until we are in that situation. even if we have been there... its different for each situation.

Nobody is saying that they think 12yos should be having sex.
Many people on here have said they would keep them on a tighter leash and reduce their opportunities.Well and good. BUT the thing is you can only reduce and not prevent eg lunchtime in the park , skipping lessons.It only takes one time to get pregnant or catch an STD.
You truly cannot stop a young person on doing something they are hellbent on doing.
The idea that by somehow educating a child , you will stop them having underage sex is so ludicrous , I really don't know where to start.I can only imagine that the poster who wrote this has not got a very wide experience of adolescent behaviour!

Absolutely this is wrong. Heavy petting maybe but anything more is illegal - and for good reason.

i agree with choc....

only needs a skipped lesson a day bunked of school. i agree that can educate children. but some preteens/teens know everything. their right your wrong.

Choclover are you aware that your arguments are exactly those of a paedophile?

A child under 13 CANNOT give consent This status in law recognises that a child of such a young age will not be able to fully understand what they would be doing when having sex. And they will also not understand the possible results of sexual intercourse.

As someone upthread said, they may be able to cite in full a sex education lesson, but cannot apply that knowledge to themselves because they are too emotionally immature. Consent is at 16 in recognition of this.

As for, you can't supervise them all the time. Yes you can. It may take some serious sacrifices, but in order to prevent child abuse or rape I would not hesitate to make those sacrifices.

Balbasaur and whatsina.

You appear to be forgetting that children have rights and that protecting them from one thing does not give you a free ride to abuse them in other ways.

That is the reason why the vast majority of SW do not do anything other than education and contraceptive protection info in circumstances like these.i have sat in more CP related meetings than I care to remember where parents have had this issue and that type of approach has never been condoned and is likely to be considered significantly harmful if anything other that short term.

A easy comparison for you. A 13yo runs away from home a parent/SW/police officer cannot force them to come back home it is considered to be child abuse pretty much no matter what the reason for them running away.

This is how we view things these days.

bunch what you say to choc: are you aware that your arguments are exactly those of a paedophile?... bit deep dont you think.

i have not heard choc say its ok for a 12 year old to have sex. i have only heard he/she say its not as simple as just stopping it....

ChocLover, your concept that you cannot teach a child about the undesirability of having sex at 12 is both bizarre and a counsel of despair. How do you account for the fact that so many young people in fact don't have sex till they reach the age of consent?

Can I just ask, if the girl had been 14 and the boy 12, would everybody being calling the girl a rapist?

Yes although I believe the legal term would be assault as rape is defined as penetrative sexual act?