was SIL rude ?

[EvilTendency1]

Friend told me today what happened at her place last weekend.

Her and her husband had put on a Christmas meal early for his side of the family (parents are deceased and it's only her DH's brother and his family)

They have two children and her in laws have three, so 5 children under 8, youngest is 4.

The 4 yr old starts to announce that she is hungry and wants some crisps, she wanders into the kitchen and starts looking in cupboards looking for them, my friend tells her neice 'Dinner will be 5-10 mins, so no I won't be giving out crisps - won't be long though ! " in a cheery voice.

Child complains to her mother, so friends SIL comes into the kitchen "Where are some crisps ? Mary is hungry." Friend starts to plate up, won't be long. SIL sniffs and says "Mary will have the crisps thanks, she's hungry now." then starts to look in cupboards and finds some, opens them and Mary gets her crisps.

10 mins later Mary doesn't want her dinner - she's not hungry now.

Pudding is served and Mary starts helping herself to things from the table and complaining that she wants other things as well. Friends DH announces then at the table to his neice "Mary, you didn't eat any dinner and in this house that means you don't get any pudding."

Mary bursts into tears and all hell breaks loose, SIL demands that her BIL apologise THIS instant for talkinf to a child that way and no one dictates to her child what she can and can't eat.

They leave 10 mins later and children are crying etc as their cousins are leaving halfway through a meal etc.

She told me she found her SIL actions really rude and doesn't want to see her again. I did admit I found her DH's comments a bit rude and I would have challenged him as well if someone spoke to my child like that.

Was the SIL being unreasonable and over reacting do you think ? I find it bloody rude to feed a child crisps right before a meal though and would have made my own dcs eat their dinner - there would have been no alternative s offered I'm afraid.

You and me both then Back

There's surely give and take.

As an adult, I am well mannered enough to eat what I'm given, be appreciative and express appreciation. I am not fussy.

At the same time, as a host I would not impose rules on guests.

I wouldn't announce the rules at the table. It's not as if I would say to an adult friend "no, you can't have any pudding because you haven't eaten enough peas".

Similarly I would not tell a child that they can't have pudding because they didn't eat their first course if their parent was there.

It's not as if the child was throwing food or behaving atrociously. It sounds like an unnecessary display rather than the actions of someone trying to make the meal a pleasant experience.

I wouldn't allow my own dcs to forage in cupboards and wouldn't have got the crisps. I may have at that point mentioned that one of the dcs unlikely to eat much supper regardless (particular food preferences/sensory issues that we work on at home rather than at larger family get togethers for the pure reason that don't want a pointless stand off in front of extended family/want everyone to have fun rather than display exemplary etiquette while they're still learning).

Pudding is served and Mary starts helping herself to things from the table and complaining that she wants other things as well

ummm, no she cant have pudding....

There's a good point goldmandra.

It's something I try very hard to avoid doing with youngest, although in our case he is off the bottom of the nhs bmi chart and so trying to get him to gain weight is an issue, balanced with training him to observe set mealtimes since starting school. He eats like a sparrow even when no snacking allowed.

That said, I wouldn't have doled out the crisps before supper. But would have felt judged, defensive and just tired if host made big deal of main-course eating.

I wouldnt be able to understand why her parents didnt enforce this either. Madness.

My son was a fussy eater (due to allergies and epi-pen etc) but then I actually explained to my host and gave him something in private. No way would I pander to him at the table. He sat there and did what everyone else did, its called having manners.

Sounds like both adults lost sight of the main purpose of the occasion...

I don't know that it's madness. It's clear that the two families have different rules.

There are things that are non-negotiable with my children. Doesn't mean I would enforce those rules of ours on other people's children, especially if their parents are there.

I dont get it. If at another persons table then you act accordingly and teach your children to do the same. If there is something you wont eat then leave it, not a problem, surely the parents are aware of what their kids eat. Dont tell me there was nothing whatsoever at the table? Even if it was a bit of bread or whatever. The child wasnt being force fed.

The child was unlikely to have been full after a packet of crisps. I mean they are hardly filling are they?
I think SIL looked rude for going through your cupboards. And dh was rude for imposing rules on a guest.
If you have a dc friend come round for tea after school do you make them eat all the food served?

My house My rules.

If people can't accept that they know where the door is.

Both rude.

Going into the cupboards after crisps very rude.
However, one of mine is awful if she's hungry, and if she gets over hungry then she actually eats less. I've had once or twice where we've arrived expecting to eat and been delayed by 30 minutes or so, and she's just gone past wanting anything, so giving her a packet of crisps before hand would actually usually mean she ate the meal better.
And none of mine would have been full with a standard bag of crisps, so wouldn't have made them eat noticably less.
More likely the little girl was wound up by dinner time and just got stressed out and unable to eat for that reason. Same as you collecting up most of the party food untouched at the end.

But the way the dh dealt with it was awful. People have said that guests should "obey the family rules". Well I would say it was the hosts job to make sure the guests were comfortable as much.
And she wasn't given any chance to know the rules until it was seen to be too late. If I'd felt it necessary to uphold it then along the lines of "hey, Mary, we always say you need to eat some dinner before pudding. Now what about this nice peice of bread and a piece of cucumber.." or whatever. She'd probably have eaten them fine.

You wouldn't say to an adult guest: "We have a rule that if you put your dink on the coffee table without a mat, we take it away," and take the drink away, would you?
You'd say "Oh, would you mind using a mat, the coffee table marks easily."
Same sort of thing.

Reminds me about why I generally avoid extended family meals. Too many opportunities for culture clashes.

Yes it was rude of the sister in law to root around cupboards for crisps, but the hostess had already been confrontational. I consider telling a hungry 4 year old 'I won't be giving out crisps' to be rude. The child was a guest. Maybe she would rather have had crisps than the meal that was on offer. I would also consider it rude to tell a guest (however old she was) that she couldn't have a pudding because she hadn't eaten a meal that had been 'plated up' giving her no chance to select what she wanted. But maybe the host family was one where children would not be seen as guests.

TBH I find the very idea of imposing 'house rules' on guests baffling. Why go to the trouble of hosting a meal if you are going to pick a fight with your guests?

SILOG rude rude rude. DH has every right to impose house rules in his own home.

The one who gave the crisps and then told the dh off for telling the child they couldn't eat dessert and not dinner, is the one in the wrong. The dh did the right thing imo

Personally I loathe food rules for children - not being able to eat what they want and when - it's so controlling and patronising. I don't like it and I don't like being around it. As a host, I want my guests to be comfortable and happy, especially the children, and if children I know are in my home and rummage through my fridge and pantry (which I encourage) I always feel pleased that they feel comfortable enough to do that. Sit down meals at set times often don't work for children anyway so people should be more child-friendly. That being said, if I visit someone who doesn't feel the same way I would bring my own food bag, and encourage my children not to eat right before their dinner as this wouldn't be agreeable to the host. I think the SIL could have avoided the original issue by doing that and distracting her obviously hungry daughter whilst she was waiting for the food. However, if I was at someone else's house who told my children they couldn't have dessert because they didn't eat their meal I really wouldn't go back there to eat again. I would have left and got all my kids some ice-cream on the way home. That's not 'spoilt' imo (horrid way to describe children) it's just respectful. If someone denied me a pudding I wanted because I didn't eat all my meal I would be pretty miffed too. Their house, their rules, but it would be my choice not to put my family or theirs in that kind of difficult situation again.

I think you are right notquite, telling a hungry 4 year old "I won't be giving out crisps" is rude. In the same position, I would have given the dc's parent a nod to gather their response to the question, and responded according to the parent's wishes.

I find it incredible that so many posters think that they can impose arbitrary rules on their guests under the cover of 'etiquette'. Surely proper etiquette would dictate that a host is to make a guest feel comfortable.

It took me so long to put that through that pass got there first and said it better .

Ha I was thinking the same of you random

I think the desperately sad thing in our society is many people don't see children as worthy of being treated by their hosts with the same effort one would normally extend to an adult. Kids are expected to be mini-adults at these supposedly family celebrations...insist they wait for food, limited choice in what they eat, sit down for long periods, eat what is in front of them, etc...it just isn't child-friendly, or joyful IMHO.

But an adult realizes "if I scoff these crisps, I won't be hungry for the main meal which will be ready in a few minutes". A child does not, which is why they should (IMO) be gently told.

SIL was very rude.

I feel the DH was also out of order. It's fine to feel that way and I'd be annoyed, but unless someone is danger of being hurt I think it's usually best not to parent other people's children.

I think SIL was massively in the wrong, rude to rifle through cupboards and to let Mary waste her dinner cooled for her by the friend.

I don't blame DH for saying something and I may be being hypocritical but I think good on him for saying it but that maybe it wasn't the best thing to say- eg he could have addressed the parents instead of Mary or even better stepped in earlier and said it's not on to have crisps instead of a meal his wife had spent time preparing.

SIL was the most rude and was BU so maybe a good thing that she's been challenged a bit on her rude behaviour, but if I was the friend I'd explain all this to the SIL, include a small apology for the way DH raised it but would need and expect an apology from SIL for her rude behaviour.

Overall SILwas BU and overreacting.

That said, I wouldn't have doled out the crisps before supper. But would have felt judged, defensive and just tired if host made big deal of main-course eating.

But I doubt he would have said anything had she just not eaten the meal - children can be fussy/funny with food. He was probably cross at her mother taking crisps that didn't belong to her and giving them to her child, therefore filling her up.

I'd be livid to be honest, but wouldn't bat an eyelid at a child not really eating otherwise.

Both were wrong. Of course Mary shouldn't have been given crisps and I'm horrified they were taken out of hosts kitchen! But the uncle is not the parent, how ludicrous of him to tell Mary what she can and can't eat.

I'm glad Mary is not My nightmare but if she was only dh and I are allowed to tell her what she can and can't eat!

For those stating "my house, my rules". You will be ensuring that MN exists for many many years.

You are set to become the controlling MILs/SILs that posters are obligated to visit, but dread because they are so unaccomodating, especially towards children (the child is under 5).

It was supposed to be a happy family celebration meet up, food to young children is often secondary.

If you invite people, you accommodate them.

The size of the portion the child then refused, didn't warrant the refusal if desert.

This is why buffet/grazing type food works so much better than meat and veg, with other non UK cuisines, there would be finger foods/snacky sides.

And left overs would be reusable.

For all those saying "it was supposed to be a happy family meal", the lack of parenting of Mary before and during the meal resulted in behaviour that almost guaranteed it would not be a happy meal.