help with the practical positives and negatives of formula feeding

[KnackeredMerrily]

I'm currently breastfeeding my week old but we are struggling with putting weight on and jaundice.

I've been here before with my first son, and the first months of his life with feeding him 20 times a day and expressing top up feeds. The idea of doing it again makes me want to curl up into a ball and weep.

But, I've never gone through the practicalities of formula feeding either. What is it like? How do you make feeds up in advance? Is it a fiddle travelling with bottles and keeping them warm and wondering how much they've had? Is one formula better than another?

I am well aware of the benefits of breastfeeding so I don't need to hear that slant. I'm just wondering what the day to day life is like when FF

And in answer to what would happen if no formula ... Baby's were wet nursed, given substitutes like cows milk and suffered the consequences

Diving - I really don't know what you're talking about when you wheel out comments about 'women being allowed to stop breastfeeding' only in the event of complete lactation failure. Nobody in the uk is forced to breastfeed, and most choose not to breastfeed for more than a few weeks. Most mothers stop breastfeeding without ever discussing their intention to do so with a health professional.

Really, you don't need to feel so persecuted. You're part of a large majority.

I don't feel persecuted because this isn't about me.

It just boils my piss when educated women making difficult decisions don't get their decisions respected. Every thread along these lines gets derailed with pleas not to stop, or that golden 1% figure.

It's the worst kind of women hating on other women type behaviour I've ever encountered in my life.

I don't really understand why breastfeeding is even being talked about here. The OP was clearly and specifically about formula feeding.

Tongue tied babies will still have milk transfer issues, even with the greatest latch in the world, so no external observation would have been able to confirm what your baby was taking in Loz. I would still suggest that if you had supply issues, it was TT-related rather than a primary supply issue. Not expressing much is no indication of supply - it just means you couldn't express much.

All this is just academic, however, and is by no means a 'you should have tried harder'. I'm glad your baby got fed in the end and I'm sorry you had such a terrible, stressful start

DS1 was very tongue-tied. He lost 11% of his birthweight because of that and because I just couldn't believe how much he wanted to feed and tried settling him in other ways rather than just sticking a (very sore) boob in his face at the slightest squeak. Fortunately I had outstanding midwives who never once suggested formula, but got me to express and cup feed instead of breastfeed for a few days. I was lucky and able to express, using the cup let my nipples heal, didn't give him nipple confusion and bypassed the issue of the tongue tie so well that he went from 11% under to about 3oz over birthweight in about two days. This big hit of feeding, plus sunlight, also cleared his jaundice. I say this just in case it's something the OP may not have encountered, as it ultimately enabled me to BF DS1 for 17 months. I also did similar with tongue-tied DS2, who was also very jaundiced (got sent to A&E with it and almost got admitted) but cleared it with lots of feeding.

Well said Diving!

You're right Neverbuy, some people just can't help themselves. they're just gonna keep posting until everyone on MN agrees with them!

Rootandbranch as you're the 'show me the evidence' type, please can you show me the evidence of how anything you've posted here has any relevance to the OP?

OP I've got 4 children. FF is a doddle once you get organised and get used to it.

Fedup - who are you, the thread police?

Is there a rule - that we're only allowed to respond directly to the OP (as I have in several posts - you can thank me later for taking the trouble to link to up to date and reliable info on how to make up bottle feeds - unlike some of the dangerous out of date rubbish which has also been posted on this thread, you don't seem to have a problem with this)?

Actually I can answer that - it's absolutely ok for threads to meander. It is you know - it happens all the time.

It's only on threads like this that you run into problems because of posters who are ridiculously touchy about their feeding choices and who tend to project right left and centre, reading all sorts of rubbish into people's posts which simply just isn't there.

I'm a bit confused by the way.

Did the OP say she had exclusively breastfed her first and hence didn't know what it was like to ff? Is that why she was asking about the practicalities?

I totally agree Neverbuy, bf should never have been mentioned here in the first place. But once it was mentioned there were loads of inaccuracies flying around and I understand the need of some posters to correct those at least. It does go the other way too - sometimes a thread is started with a problem about bf, with the OP clearly stating she doesn't want to stop, and there will be lots of posts saying "just change to formula/ consider mixed feeding". Tbf this happens with every bloody subject on MN these days, no one reads OPs properly it seems.

I also agree with diving about the "1%" figure and how that is totally irrelevant. There are indeed many reasons why women find bf too difficult to continue and they don't need to be physical ones. And, in any case, just not feeling like it is a good enough reason in itself. Am very glad we have freedom of choice and access to formula. I just wish the bf support for the women who want it was more accessible.

I totally agree Neverbuy, bf should never have been mentioned here in the first place. But once it was mentioned there were loads of inaccuracies flying around and I understand the need of some posters to correct those at least.

Exactly.

This thread was going fine until someone jumped in with the old 'are you sure you want to formula feed, there are breastfeeding cafes you know', basically with the implication that if she just 'tried a bit harder' she wouldn't have to formula feed. Well sometimes when you have a new baby and things are not going well, you don't have the time, energy or the bloody will to just 'try a bit harder'. Especially when you have been there and done it with your first baby.

But obviously once breastfeeding is mentioned, all the 'I didn't make enough milk', 'formula milk is just as good as breastsmilk' comments come, and then others feel the need to correct statements that are not correct.

Root your links about formula feeding have been correct, but there have been times on this thread where the breastfeeding issue could have been avoided and we could have just got on with the OPs question.

A thread about formula feeding will only 'meander' onto why breastfeeding is better if certain posters with certain agendas make it that way.

Sorry root I meant to say your links about formula feedin have been helpful, obviously they are correct! (I was reading at what I had just written!)

I think the information from both helium and roots has been accurate and helpful.

It seems to me the people with agendas are those who don't respect all women's abilities to make informed decisions or all women's rights to hold different opinions.

Make whatever decision you want to and then own that decision. You don't have to explain it to anyone. And nobody has to aplogise to you for having a different point of view.

Jesus and the bfing crusade posts keep coming.

Op has made her choice(some posters need to live with it) and many posts just aren't appropriate with this thread.

The way posters thing it necessary to lecture on a parenting preference they have is staggering?Do you do that with nursery threads,sleeping, food choices or screen time threads?

No thought not.

Well sometimes when you have a new baby and things are not going well, you don't have the time, energy or the bloody will to just 'try a bit harder'.

Will you be saying that about all the other challenges of parenthood?

Other parenting choices don't involve your body.

I'm guessing you think those whose kids don't respond to C&C,eating 10 f&v a day,zero screen time,exercise several times a week,extra homework,hours of reading etc should "just try harder".

We all try our best and what we/our families can cope with.Some you win,some lose.I lost out re bfing bug couldn't give shiny shit.My kids weren't stuck in nursery,slept through from 6 months so enjoyed all the health and developmental benefits sleep bring,go to bed early now,read 2 hours minim a day,don't eat junk,have a healthy diet,and get exercise and plenty of fresh air.The lack of bm past 6 weeks pings zero on my parent worrying radar.Sorry.

Cc

^^ No, because in a few years time whether you breastfed or formula fed will pale into insignificance in the greater scheme of things. Formula is a perfectly acceptable alternative if, for any number of a huge variety of reasons, breastfeeding doesn't work out.

This thread was going fine until someone jumped in with the old 'are you sure you want to formula feed, there are breastfeeding cafes you know', basically with the implication that if she just 'tried a bit harder' she wouldn't have to formula feed.

No one on any of the BFing threads I have read (and that's a lot of threads) has suggested BFing cafes, or the suggestions that I have given, because someone 'needs to try a bit harder'. They're suggested because an OP (and I don't necessarily mean this one) hasn't indicated whether she's gone down this route, and whether she's even aware of this route. A poster may suggest it because it was helpful for them and was the tiny piece in the puzzle they needed to get BFing working. Never have I ever seen anyone suggest that an OP needs to try harder. If that's how you're reading it, you're projecting something that's just not there. Life with a newborn is fucking hard enough, so no one with any decency would suggest or even imply that 'trying harder' is required!

And I hope I'm not considered part of 'the bfing crusade' LePetit. I think I've clearly stated more than once that the OP should make a decision that suits her and her baby best, but when people come out with steady rivers of slightly insulting bullshit about BFing, I will respond.

Op says she fed her first up to twenty times a day for months. That is a miserable existence if things did not improve and flies in the face of 'it will get better'. Op - I found ff a real faff irrespective of combining it with bf each and every feed. I would much rather have just bf. but if your baby is hungry enough to feed twenty times a day then I think that says a lot. As I've said, I think a year on, I was crazy to do both. I think the people who think ff is easy are generally not following nhs guidelines. I didn't dare not to given my baby was so sick early on due to feeding issues. The worst things for me about ff were waiting for bottles to cool, preparing feeds when out and wasting so much when the two hour 'slot' was up.

Squirrelled and Petit BF doesn't pale into insignificance 20 years later - Sorry about that
It has been one of the most amazing experiences of my life.
It was hard work, lovely, tiring and simply amazing.
Your opinion or whether you give a shiny shit wont change that.
You can try to minimise what it meant because you didn't do it but tough shit it was a great experience for me and the best thing for my babies

I did do it and it was shite.

Ffing was awesome.

Sorry, it has already paled into insignificance.Far more worthy memories,joys and successes to think of.

Well successful BF was lovely and really amazing - sorry it didn't work out for you LePetit
Yes lots of lovely memories and significant events but my body doing what it was meant to do and the utter bliss of BF will always be really significant to me.
My feelings are as valid as anyone elses .

Your body doing what is what was meant to do.Lucky you,gloat away.

You know what like many my body failed me on conception,birth and bfing,however I had loaded of other successes eg being a sahm for 7 years,babies who sleep through etc,etc.A lot was down to luck as much as anything else.Do I get to gloat too or is it only bfing that one is allowed to gloat about?

Alpaca you sound quite defensive. Breastfeeding was great for you. Formula feeding was great for us. Horses for courses and all that.

But guess what, that was a few months of DS's life and that was 16 years ago. I can think of dozens of things that have been way more important over the last 16 years, and many other things that will be way more important in the future too.

Im not gloating- I simply expressed that it was important to me in the face of " BF is nothing" posts.
I also SAH and had a DH who SAH when I worked ? so what
mine also loved their beds.[GRIN]

I BF and it was great for me and the best thing for my DC - if you FF and it was great for you then - wonderful.
I have never slated FF - so how about stopping the nastiness because you didn't do it ??