help with the practical positives and negatives of formula feeding

[KnackeredMerrily]

I'm currently breastfeeding my week old but we are struggling with putting weight on and jaundice.

I've been here before with my first son, and the first months of his life with feeding him 20 times a day and expressing top up feeds. The idea of doing it again makes me want to curl up into a ball and weep.

But, I've never gone through the practicalities of formula feeding either. What is it like? How do you make feeds up in advance? Is it a fiddle travelling with bottles and keeping them warm and wondering how much they've had? Is one formula better than another?

I am well aware of the benefits of breastfeeding so I don't need to hear that slant. I'm just wondering what the day to day life is like when FF

""There is enough conflicting and guiltripping advice out there already without you making pointless quotes from a generic site targeted at the lowest common denominator which I am sure the OP has already read through."

Wow. Just.....wow.

Formula is fine use aptamil it is the best one.

DO NOT USE ANY ORGANIC FORMULA as they have not been approved properly due to the organic loophole so the ingredients are not as good as a normal formula.

I used tommy tippee bottles and sterilising stuff. Which is what we all used at the time. No idea what is used the days.

I had a special pot I'd take out with pre scooped amounts of formula I would put in the bottle when required then ask a cafe for hot water to make it up.

I had problems breast feeding so pumped my milk for 3 months for my DS using an electic medala pump I hired. I gave up after a week with my DD and she went straight onto aptamil formula. Both are very healthy and doing well at school.

It is not fiddly, you will work out what works for you and baby. Do whatever you feel is best. Do not cave in under pressure re Breastfeeding. Many many mums can not breastfeed despite what you will be told. Also FF is great as anyone can hold baby to feed.

Formula is fine use aptamil it is the best one.

DO NOT USE ANY ORGANIC FORMULA as they have not been approved properly due to the organic loophole so the ingredients are not as good as a normal formula.

Um, with respect, both of these statements are total bullshit.

Thanks living!

I wanted to add I'm not usually brand loyal and didn't choose aptimal because I'd been told it was the best or closest to breast milk. I chose it because I am not in the UK but my family are and I wanted something which is the same in both countries and readily available in my local supermarket and my dm's it's also the one the hospital use and according to my dm, marks and spencers sell it so it must be ok!

Dd was constipated and did have colic. At the very start I will admit that I think the constipation wasn't helped by not mixing bottles properly,we're strict now about this, but having one feed a day of comfort formula has helped no end and it also fills her up. Our pediatrician said don't use aptimal comfort because like most comfort formula it's just thickened with cornstarch. You want one with carob in because it's a natural fibre and it's good for the bowels. She has comfort formula for the first feed of the day. We use frisolac which I think you can get in chemists.

We don't reheat formula because there's never any left!

Please don't use a formula with any thickeners in it until the baby is at least 4 months old.

Please don't use "extra scoops".

Please don't believe the rubbish a both organic milk not being safe.

Please don't believe the rubbish about one formula being better than another- some babies seem to do better with one brand or another but none of them are "better" than another.

I am too lazy and disorganised to ff- I liked being out and about and spontaneous with my babies and I would always have been ending up 2 hours from home with no formula or bottles left, but lots of other people seem to manage! I also liked not really ever having to wake up in the night.

Where I live you have to have any kind of formula that isn't the regular variety prescribed and you can only get it at the chemist so the frisolac is on prescription from the pediatrician it wasn't something I just decided to do. She's had it from about 5 weeks. I was sharing my experience because it might help someone because it really helped us better than putting Infacol in her bottles.

Re the extra scoop at nightime, I used to give my babies an extra ounce (scoop) at nightimes but it was mixed in the correct amount of water. So they had a little bit extra before bedtime which helped them to settle.(they didn't always want it though).
I used to give them their last bottle about 11 pm, and always take time to get their wind up.( Bottle fed babies do probably take a lot more air in). After a few weeks they would drop their feed in the middle of the night.
Someone mentioned Avent bottles, they were my favourite - the fat ones. I found them easy to clean and assemble and the babies liked the teats.

"Re the extra scoop at nightime, I used to give my babies an extra ounce (scoop) at nightimes but it was mixed in the correct amount of water."

Isn't that just a slightly bigger feed?

"Do not cave in under pressure re Breastfeeding. Many many mums can not breastfeed despite what you will be told"

Evidence?

99% of Norweigan mums leave hospital breastfeeding. 80% are still breastfeeding at 6 months. And that's in a country where formula is as widely available and affordable as in the uk.

"Many many mums can not breastfeed despite what you will be told"

Who says? What happened to those babies before formula milk?

Obviously feeding should be a matter of choice. But it should be a choice based on fact. It is very unusual for a woman not to be able to breast feed if she gets the proper support and information. What she chooses to do is her own business. But not bf because you think you can't do it is a crying shame. Not bf if for whatever reason you don't want to is perfectly fine.

Yes it is hakluyt well spotted .

Not being able to breastfeed is not just about physiology. I know it's really very difficult for lactivists to understand, but sometimes there are other ways in which breastfeeding can be intolerable and impossible... AND THAT'S OK.

I love it when the stats get rolled out saying "only 1% of women physically can't make milk", like that's the only time a woman is allowed to stop, without censure and judgement from those who found it easy and can't possibly understand what it's like to struggle and suffer

"like that's the only time a woman is allowed to stop,"

You may have noticed that's not what I said. But saying that many many women can't bf is just factually wrong. They physically can with the right support. They may not want to- and that's fine. But it needs to be a proper choice.

And I loathe the term "lactivists".

How does support and information increase supply then?

I would have been included in the 99 percent statistic but not in the 80 percent one. The first figure is bound to be high because everyone should try. I don't think it's an accurate representation.I fed dd for the 5 days I was in hospital and another week afterwards. Every single feed had to be topped up with formula. Not once in that time was I able to satisfy her myself, perfect latch, no tounge tie etc but technically I still breastfed. I can't think of anything that would have helped And neither could the hospital or they would have done.

I also wondered if it had anything to do with the birth so I mentioned that in the thread I started which didn't help because it was just full of people with a worse experience but more successful bf, not what I wanted to hear!

And as many other people have said what does it matter anyway.

I don't think I can't bf.I know I couldn't this time. But I tried. If I have another one it might be different and I might try again or I'll save myself the grief and ff. Either way reassurance that I made the right choice is why I came here.

I was referring to Root's post, Hakkuyt.

Nevertheless, even your posts are unhelpful and unsupportive to the OP. And it's all well and good talking about getting the proper support and information (as I mentioned in a post yesterday, it's a predictable response: "Please don't stop breastfeeding! What a shame! You just haven't TRIED hard enough!") because a breastfeeding drop in session at a Sure Start centre one morning a week is sod all help to most people - and that is the sum total of help and support available to most women up and down the country.

Oh for fucks sake - the OP specifically said I am well aware of the benefits of breastfeeding so I don't need to hear that slant.

But some people just cannot help themselves can they?

I intended to bf exclusively but problems with lack of milk put my ds in hospital for a week with significant weight loss, dehydration and sodium problems. Then bf and topped up with ff - there had better have been some good bloody stuff in the breast milk as the effort of doing both every feed was huge.

I knew nothing about ff as my bf nhs course leader assured me that no one ever has issues with supply coming out of the hospital I followed the nhs guidance on fresh prep every time to the letter. I saw the tommee tippee perfect prep machine and thought wow! Then I thought - hang on a minute, how does it get it to the right temp instantly? Err by having a non-sterilised reservoir for water. Hygiene questions apart, I thought well I can do that myself and better by sterilising a bottle, filling with boiled water, cooling and storing in fridge then making up a feed with 50% boiling water to which the powder is added, then 50% chilled water from fridge. Voila a bottle just about cool enough to drink. My hv listened to my reasoning (she hadnt heard of the tommee tippee) took the issue back to her team and concluded this was ok. A hundred quid saved and IMHO the hygiene is better than the perfect prep machine.

I've been trying to keep out but Bulbasaur's posts have got to me.

First off, the putting cereal in a bottle is so freaking dangerous I don't know where to begin. The risk isn't obesity, it's CHOKING.

And now to these other bizarre 'pros':

- Eye contact and snuggles when bottle feeding

You get that with breastfeeding too. Both of my boys have maintained constant eye contact throughout once they were old enough to be interested in looking around.

- Can let others take care of baby while you catch up on sleep
- Baby can bond just as much with partner since he can feed baby too

The advice is given that only mum bottle feeds a baby, especially in the earliest weeks as the biological norm is that one person is responsible for feeding. I know people do pass a baby around for feeds, but this is against developmental advice.

- Your nipples don't hurt and never will.

Once you get past the first few weeks of BFing, your nipples don't hurt and never will.

- Your boobs won't be weird shaped when you're baby is weaned

You do know changes in breast shape are due to pregnancy and have nothing to do with breastfeeding?

- Minimal nutritional difference between breast milk

There are major differences - antibodies being but one component of breastmilk not even partially replicated in formula.

- Bottle feeding is very quick. Over in 5-10 minutes.

Exactly how long both of my babies have taken to BF, once milk supply established after a few weeks.

- Don't feed as often.

True, because the non-human proteins mean formula isn't digested as easily, so sits in the gut longer. Why is this a good thing?

- Always know how much your baby is eating

I know how much mine got/get - plenty because they put on weight (after initial weight loss and prolonged breastmilk jaundice which is common and harmless - please look up 'breastmilk jaundice' specifically before jumping on me) and produced wet and dirty nappies. Quantity is meaningless.

- Easy to switch from bottle to sippy cup and wean.

My EBF four month old can feed himself with a sippy cup of expressed milk.

- When baby is older they can hold bottle and feed themselves if you need to get things done

See above. I can also breastfeed completely hands-free, with the right pillow support or sling, and manage my toddler while feeding the baby.

Dear lord. Sorry OP. You feed your baby however you feel suits you. These mis-informed 'pros' just shat me.

When I came home from hospital both of us were still a bit poorly and I carried on trying. Despite having to use shields which both of us hated. I also felt more comfortable in my room.

I live abroad and had friends and family visiting when dd was born. So I had a houseful, everyone helping out with everything and instead of enjoying their company and dds first days we were both cooped up trying to get to grips with the feeding thing. When I decided to stop it was like a weight being lifted and I could enjoy dd with my family and no pressure. We had our first family outing the following day with both sets of gps and it was lovely.

I think being out and about so quickly and not putting so much pressure on myself also helped my recovery.

Re: not making enough milk. I think it is more common than imagined as the childrens ward my baby was admitted to having lost weight and become dehydrated whilst exclusively bf, said that they have one admission a week for the same issue. Given that the majority of babies on the maternity ward were ff anyway, that sounds pretty high to me. Seeing my baby shrinking before my eyes, screaming continuously then becoming hoarse then too withdrawn to cry was awful. I did everything I could including expressing through the night to up my supply but it didn't happen. I never had enough per feed. I persisted with mixed feeding every feed for five months. Now I look back and think why???

Those mum's may not necessarily have irreparable supply issue loz if their latch isn't right, the baby won't be getting enough milk which in turn means the supply isn't being driven. Tops ups though sometimes necessary will also affect supply. A lot of babies are readmitted theirs mum's are given support and they go on to successfully bf their babies.

True - someday be latch issues. However in my hospital, there were breastfeeding helpers (sorry can't think of the right word!) galore 24 7. In my case they all said my baby 'fed beautifully'. I was observed multiple times as I had a tongue tied baby and had requested a snip before birth even. The snip was denied as the tie didn't meet the severity required to qualify. The observations were to back that up. I don't dispute their verdict on the tongue tie. I do know that I breast fed each feed and my baby was severely ill as a consequence. I then breast fed until nothing further could come out each feed then formula fed. I then expressed after that and barely got enough to cover the bottom of the bottle. And this routine every two hours after a section and during/after a week long stay on the childrens ward. Short of leaving my baby to starve and get kidney damage whilst I stuck to bf only, I don't know what I was meant to do? In retrospect, I don't regret not exclusively bf, I regret the time and effort I spent persisting with it. They are personal feelings and I was VERY committed to bf before the birth - books, courses, visits to support groups..