help with the practical positives and negatives of formula feeding

[KnackeredMerrily]

I'm currently breastfeeding my week old but we are struggling with putting weight on and jaundice.

I've been here before with my first son, and the first months of his life with feeding him 20 times a day and expressing top up feeds. The idea of doing it again makes me want to curl up into a ball and weep.

But, I've never gone through the practicalities of formula feeding either. What is it like? How do you make feeds up in advance? Is it a fiddle travelling with bottles and keeping them warm and wondering how much they've had? Is one formula better than another?

I am well aware of the benefits of breastfeeding so I don't need to hear that slant. I'm just wondering what the day to day life is like when FF

I've mix fed DS out of necessity (ie I planned to exclusively BF but we had major problems getting established, jaundice, weight loss etc).

I've found FF to be a major practical faff compared to BF going well, but significantly less angst and tears than BF going badly.

Sod the 'breast is best' stuff as thread isn't about that.

Get a perfect prep if you are FFing - as far as I'm concerned this is the only way to follow advice on safe formula preparation and stay sane. Ready made bottles for out of the house. Milton cold water steriliser for home, microwave steriliser bags for visiting family etc.

Personally I'm glad I persevered with mixed feeding purely because the advantages of being able to whack the baby on the boob sometimes have been significant (easy when out and about, priceless for comforting crying baby)

Well I have done both OP and being honest I found both had pros and cons. I am a big supporter of bf because when I eventually got it after 3 kids it was great but the other 2 kids needed feeding too so ff was what had to happen.

My only suggestion and it is only a suggestion before I get eaten alivebefore you move to ff is to get some advice from a fully qualified lactation consultant, pay if you have to. My friend had jaundiced twins and once she got the right specialist advice she was able to clear the bilirubin with BM and I think sunlight exposure but I am not an expert so better to ask one.

There is some really good advice up thread on ff and making up bottles. I like many others batch made them up and cooled them in the fridge which was convenient. Best of luck whatever you choose I hope either way it goes really well.

Really good advice from Plate and another
I BF both mine - don't hate me ! but it was easy and convenient.

No problems latching, no nipple chomping and I had tons of milk.
It was blissful and easy.
I can see that for some FF was the best option but I do think there is a lack of assistance for BF mothers as FF has become the norm.
BF and FF is completely different - BF babies feed more often to get supply going. It is more intensive.
BF babies once established are way easier- boob out, baby on ! 24/7
But this is not every ones ideal and the early days are harder work.

BTW - 32 FF and still perky

I forgot the most important advantage of BFing - can do it one handed more easily, leaving other hand free to use remote control, eat cake and browse mumsnet on my phone.

Whilst I couldn't care less how people choose to feed their own children. I do get annoyed at this 'its just the same'.
It's not. One is artificially made in a factory based on milk from a cow.
The other is not.

When formula is dried up breastmilk that you reconstitute with water then maybe that would be a bit true.

Whilst I couldn't care less how people choose to feed their own children. I do get annoyed at this 'its just the same'.
It's not. One is artificially made in a factory based on milk from a cow.
The other is not.

When formula is dried up breastmilk that you reconstitute with water then maybe that would be a bit true.

OP FF is absolutely fine and quite faff free. Any tedium around washing and sterlising is soon replaced by the joy of DH being able to give a bottle in the night and me getting enough sleep

You can also quite safely make it up 24 hours beforehand, store it in the fridge and then use as needed. Once out then use within 2 hours, and only reheat once before throwing away.

DD was in hospital for the first ten days of her life and this is how they did it so we figured it must be alright, which it is of course. The night shift nurses made up feeds overnight and then they were used during the day. At that point she was on 8-9 feeds per day.

The other trick is to put an extra scoop of formula in the night feed to make it heavier so they sleep better (so now eight scoops instead of seven). This worked a charm for DD although she doesn't need it now. Also she has an extra 10ml of water in each bottle to prevent her getting constipated. All recommended by our HV so it is worth asking yours.

I have seen the advice echoed on other posts and yes, add boiling water to the formula as this kills off the bacteria - the formula powder itself is not sterile but the addition of the boiling water then makes it perfectly safe. The other thing we were told is to not reboil boiling water to make the bottles so always start afresh.

We sterilised our bottles (a Dutch brand called Difrax first then she preferred Tommee Tippee a bit later) up till six months. I always go out with one made up in a bottle warmer and then an Aptimal in a small ready-bought bottle. We find if we use too much of the premade stuff it bungs her up a bit so we try to go sparingly on it. We haven't used anything apart from Aptimal, asides from Nutrilon which is the Dutch version (DD was born there). This used to fly off the shelves and there was a limit of two per purchase. Apparently the Dutch stuff is the best in the world and people send it back home or to China where it sells for a fortune!

From NHS choices:
"Do not add extra formula powder when making up a feed. This can make your baby constipated and may cause dehydration. Too little powdered infant formula may not provide your baby with enough nourishment.
Do not add sugar or cereals to the feed in the bottle.
Never warm up infant formula in a microwave, as it can heat the feed unevenly and may burn your baby’s mouth."

Ready to use formula is the norm for newborns and preterm babies being treated in the NHS now.

NHS Choices:
"Step 14 If there is any made-up formula left after a feed, throw it away."

I'll admit I haven't read the full thread so I might be repeating what others have said. We started FF with DC1 after about 2 weeks as my milk never came in, started FF with DC2 from day 1 as I didn't want a repeat of the difficulties we had with DC1 and milk never came in again.

I think it's fairly easy to manage if you make use of the different possibilities - it doesn't just have to be boiling water, powder, and microwave sterilising. This is what we have done:

• cold water sterilising: I find it easier as I can wash one bottle and throw it in, or do all of them, and the water is good for 24 hours and can be reused in that time.
• ready to feed formula and starter pack bottles:

1. For the first week we used the starter packs (sterile, pre-filled, disposable bottles) during the night as we could just pull one out in the bedroom, to help as we got into the swing of things.
2. I always use ready to feed when out and about. Now that we are more into a pattern we take some sterilised bottles and a ready to feed to bed, so that when DC wakes for a night feed we're good to go very quickly and then I can put the RTF bottle/carton into the fridge after (RTF can be kept in the fridge up to 24 hours after opening).

• for making up formula from powder: we have a metal flask that we keep in the fridge filled with cooled boiled water, we boil some water fresh and add the powder as needed in order to dissolve and prepare it properly, as you need to use water over 70C to make formula, then top up with the cooled water to bring it to the right amount and temperature.

Eg, for 120ml of water there are 4 scoops of powder, so I measure say 60ml of cooled water and dissolve the 4 scoops in 60ml of boiled water, then add the cool. Bottle is ready very quickly that way.

We like Hipp Organic as we've found with both DC that they take it well and it also happens to be slightly cheaper than some of the others (I think Aptamil is the most expensive). DC1 would take SMA, whereas DC2 doesn't get on with SMA but does get on fine with Cow & Gate. Hipp isn't found as easily as SMA, C&G and Aptamil - available in Boots, supermarkets and such, but not in smaller stores like Sainsbury's Local if you're trying to pick up something whilst out or having unexpectedly run low. Other friends have also found that their DC get on well with Hipp or Aptamil, with divided experiences with SMA and C&G.

Fwiw, we buy RTF cartons in bulk on Amazon as it's just easier and they happen to have a lower price for the cartons than the supermarket.

With DC1 I had a handful of moments where I thought, "This would be easier if I could just pull up my top and BF!". However I never really felt like FFing was hard. We're quite comfortable right now FFing DC2 and it doesn't feel like a chore, I think partly because of our system of balancing when to use RTF and when to use powder. Personally I don't get on with carrying a flask, or bottle warmer, or formula powder, I know a lot of people do it just fine but I find it a hassle.

I used pre mixed formula for convenience and peace of mind. The formula companies sterilise the milk but you can't sterilise a powder. I wasn't initially confident that boiling water on powder them flash cooling would work well in the middle of the night. It would probably have been fine but by the time is found my feet with formula feeding I couldn't talk myself out the sheer convenience of pre mixed. It is more expensive but since it was about the cost per day of my previous one a day Starbucks habit, that put it in perspective for me.

I had no idea Amazon sold ready made formula in bulk! Excellent tip for the future, thanks.

I think a fair bit depends on your own personality as to which will suit you more. I'm fairly spontaneous and scatty so the benefit of being able to pop the baby in the sling and leave the house with just my purse and a changing bag, without having to calculate how long I'd be out and how many feeds I'd need is great, and not be weighed down by a bag full of bottles. When we were more dependant on FF more than once I've had to go back home because I forgot to pack a bottle.

Other people I know actively prefer more structure and routine, planning feeds and knowing exactly how much milk their babies are getting, and FF suits them.

With hindsight I'm glad I persisted with BFing (having gone from about 90% FF I'm hoping to be in a position to drop FF altogether finally, five months later!). But I frankly I was lost in an emotional haze about the issue for months and actually couldn't be objective enough to say 'enough's enough' and choose FF. I admire my friends who chose FF for having that strength to deal with all the emotional baggage around BFing and move on. BFers often get the credit for 'perseverance' but FFers deserve credit just as much for a different kind of strength and resolve.

There is a bit of an implication on these threads that ff has been chosen out of laziness. It really upsets me.

I started a similar thread and got the same advice. Do you think I didn't try? Was perseverance,extra coaching and support groups going to increase my supply? Yes we are in the minority but some of us aren't bf because we can't.

I tried it all. I had hours of coaching and it didn't stop me sobbing my heart out when nothing was coming out. Or at least very little of very poor quality that made dd ill.

And I agree with what was said upthread by the dad. Dh is very involved with the feeding and its lovely seeing them have such a good bond early on.

To be honest though I liked the feeling of it and I know it's acceptable to bf in public but I wasn't comfortable with it. Not even in my own house in front of family so even if I was bf being confined to the house with dd constantly attached wouldn't have been ideal either.

I second the sleeping thing. Dd is 11 weeks and sleeps in her cot 10:30-6.same bed times as us.

I also don't think she's that big. She was 3 kg at birth and is 6kg now.

On another note, dh and I do make it up in advance but not in bulk it's just whoever is in the kitchen will make up a feed if there isn't one done already and that's a great tip about amazon. We were finding it a chore keeping stocks!

I had a similar problem and ds is ff and doing well.

I bought a perfect prep machine and it is brilliant. we were using the ready made milk when out which made life really easy. However ds is on comfort milk. so when out I take a flask of boiled hot and a bottle of cooled boiled water....put say 3oz of hot and 4oz of chilled (ds is 13 weeks) add powder, shake and feed.

truly going onto ff was the best thing for both of us. ds was 9.3 at birth and went down to 8. he is now 14.9. I was tying myself up in knots trying to bf and express. thank goodness for commuity midwife and amazing health visitor.

I have a cold water sterliser. its ace.

Just make sure you introduce a bottle sharpish or they may not take to it if you leave it too long.
I mixed fed from 4 days old. My friends who left it the advised 6 weeks had bottle refusers. Every one of them.

Whatever rootandbranch. Your judgemental and scaremongering comments are hardly helpful. There is enough conflicting and guiltripping advice out there already without you making pointless quotes from a generic site targeted at the lowest common denominator which I am sure the OP has already read through.

The reason the advice on microwaving is given is because a small minority are brain dead enough to a) not shake a bottle properly and b) not check the temperature before they give it to the baby and then look for someone else to blame aside from their own lack of commonsense.

Guess how I know this. Because we were told by multiple midwives whilst dd was in hospital what we could do. Who reheated bottles if she didn't finish it. In a microwave Who made up formula and stored it for 24 hours. Who advised us on the extra scoop at night. As did the HV when we came back to the UK.

All in a country that has a higher neonatal survival rate than the UK. Funny that.

The OP asked for tips. I am sharing what worked for us. I also told her to ask her HV. Last time I checked before I left for work my dd was happily playing on her mat.

mrsnec

The stuff root has quoted is from the NHS. Which bases all it's guidelines on evidence based studies.
If you are scared of this info that's your problem. But it's fair to quote it.

Who advised us on the extra scoop at night.

What you mean like 7 scoops to 6oz of water?

Yeah, you're not supposed to do that.

I do heat up in the microwave because I'm only heating up for a few seconds to take the edge off of the cold from the fridge and I give it a good old shake. And I make up bottles in advance because the WHO site says its perfectly fine to do so, especially in this country. I use my common sense on these things.

But surely adding to many scoops to not enough water means that the concentration of sugar/salt and nutrients will be wrong, and common sense says that can't be a good thing?!

Who reheated bottles if she didn't finish it.

Again common sense would tell me this wasn't a great idea (and is also just ewwwww!)

I formula fed both my kids ,and will do the same with the next. Would've loved to have breastfed but couldn't due to complications. I do find formula feeding a agro with sterilising and washing bottles, but at the same time it's easier if you have another kid who'll probably decide thay want you as soon as you decide to sit down and feed baby (exactly what I had, and could pass baby and bottle to someone else). Also, partner could help with feeds ,night and day.

We were recommended Doctor Brown bottles but found all their teats were slow flow, maybe something to do with the mechanism inside, but either way caused a very frustrated baby in the first month. We used Avent for both our kids with no problems whatsoever.

"There is enough conflicting and guiltripping advice out there already without you making pointless quotes from a generic site targeted at the lowest common denominator which I am sure the OP has already read through."

NHS Choices 'scaremongering'? Targeted at the 'lowest common denominator'?

What about information from the Royal College of Midwives? here

What about Unicef? here They're responsible for all the breastfeeding training and accreditation across the NHS.

What about the World Health Organisation? American Academy of Paediatrics?

Is there any other health advice on these sites for parents trying to keep their babies safe that you are happy to recommend we all disregard?

I did look at a perfect prep machine this time around, but when I thought about it, most of the faff with bottles is the sterilising and washing, which this doesn't help with. If you make bottles in advance and store in the fridge (which is perfectly safe) the its not different is it?

Plus it seems a bit of a waste of energy to only sterilise one bottle at a time in the microwave/electric steriliser, when you could do 4 or 6 at a time (unless you sterilise a few and then seal them quickly until needed?). I suppose Sterilising with Milton would solve this, but I have only ever used Milton during power cuts or when camping and I didn't like the chloriney smell on the bottles.

I have never really thought about all the issues around bottles before, I usually just get on with it in my own way, as most people do. I think that as long as people follow the basic guidelines carefully, and excercise common sense, then in this country it probably doesn't matter exactly how you do it, or with what steriliser/preparation machine. Whatever works for you!

I will stop using the phrase 'common sense' now!