give it to me straight - am I entitled over inheritance or are my parents selfish

[twoopsie]

To cut a long story short. My parents are very well off,dad is on a final salary pension and mum draws a state pension. They have a 5 bed Edwardian house in the south east, 2 buy to let flats owned outright, and from my dads side they inherited the family farm that is let out to four different people / businesses.

They have an income after tax of 8k a month and spend money stupidly. Dad bought a Mercedes purely to drive to the golf course as the clubs won't fit in the ferrari. 4 exotic holidays a year. Spend more on an extension than my whole house cost.

Anyway good for them but they have told me that they don't intend to leave me anything as they have earnt everything and want me to do the same. Firstly they haven't earnt everything as they inherited , mum has had state pension for more years than she worked and dad got to retire early on a final salary pension. They happy take extras like the free bus pass so the car won't get scratched in town and talk about using the winter fuel allowance to buy wine and claim theyve worked for this and are entitled to them.

Aibu to at least expect them to pass on what they were lucky enough to inherit?

ElephantsPoo One has to wonder how obsessed she is with her own selfish greed, how often and how much she badgers her parents about it, and how much of this reaction is actually elicited from them as a result. I suspect if she let them be, to do as they wished with their property, and chose to just be a decent daughter without the money grabbing side, maybe their relationship would improve.*

OTOH it could be to do with watching her parents run through a farm which has been passed down through the family for generations. They do sound very spoilt, in that way people who jumped into early final salary pension scheme retirement from an easy job for life I've noticed do. Don't expect people who are expected to work to 70+ to do anything but criticise the inequity.

Personally, I think all but small inheritances should be taxed so much they both go away and reduce Income tax for the rest of us. ie I think its fairer to tax people less on what they earn than on what they inherit though a chance of birth.

But that's not the question in this thread. I think the OP's parents sound extremely spoilt and have been cushioned from life's normal realities. Just because they are older than her certainly does not mean they are not feckless.

I don't understand what you are saying, elephantspoo.

I have said the same thing all along. I don't believe she is behaving in an entitled, selfish, greedy or covetous way. She has been hurt by her deluded "worked all my life for this" parents. Their behavior is quite unnatural and given the times we live in, just incredible really.

I don't think I'd be paying for their Christmas dinner either op.

I think if they brought it up again I would simply ask why they didn't give away the farm inheritance if they believed in working for the money. They are happy to accept inherited money but not do the same.....deluded and selfish

Nomama - Don't quite know if you're being ironic?

100%, elephantspoo, 100% ironic, I promise.

I find the whole idea of being entitled to a parent's money/property extremely weird. Given that OPs parents are living their own lives and OP wants some of it and is sounding more and more bitter by the post, I am my parents have been equally transparent - they too are spending everything. Living their lives to the full. As they are entitled to do! I wouldn't dream of begrudging them any consumerist moment they had enjoyed!

TheChandler - I don't disagree with you, and your observation regarding inheritance tax is a reasonable measure if we wished as a society to deter legacy wealth and promote consumerism. But that effectively only transfers money out of private hands and into corporations and governments. So the poor in society would still be no better off, the middle classes would find it harder to succeed generationally, and the wealthy would remain unaffected. But I see your reasoning.

I do see the fecklessness in a couple wishing to squander what they have, but the question is whether or not OP is entitled to an inheritance, and the answer is that she is 'entitled' to nothing. They are free to do with their assets as they see fit. They do no harm to her. If she wants wealth for her children, she is as free to earn and accumulate wealth as you or I. If she wishes to accumulate a nest egg for her children, she is as free to do so as you or I. If she desires to live in a country where house prices are low, and universities do not have fees, she is as free to exercise her right to lobby and shape the country as the rest of us.

We build the society our children will live in. It is a reflection of our own values, and those we choose to allow to influence it. For the past 40 years those values have been consumption, debt and greed. They were the values of our parents' society. Do we really want those to be the values we pass on to our children?

Nomama ... and is sounding more and more bitter by the post.

Lol. She's seen a hole and started digging.
My parents are comfortable. My only concern is that they are not too aware of the pitfalls money can bring. I fear they will one day sign up for some 'equity release' scheme, or end up paying thousands for some minor maintenance on their house to some cowboy builder.

If she wants wealth for her children, she is as free to earn and accumulate wealth as you or I. If she wishes to accumulate a nest egg for her children, she is as free to do so as you or I. If she desires to live in a country where house prices are low, and universities do not have fees, she is as free to exercise her right to lobby and shape the country as the rest of us.

You have a horrible blaming attitude. I bet your the kind of person that walks past someone homeless saying "they could get a job and stop drinking and get a home if they wanted to, its a free world."

Their behavior is quite unnatural and given the times we live in, just incredible really. I think that the 'never had it so good' generation have believed their own hype. OP's parents possibly in some deluded way do actually think they have earned the pensions they now draw down.

I think that those of us in work now are the 'snap back' generations. Many of us will be working into our 70s and wont necessarily get to enjoy much of the pension pot which we will contributed to.

Blaming attitude?

How is suggesting you are not entitled to anything your parents own in any way blaming?

As for that last sentence, well... that beggars belief!

You seem to know what they are worth and what they spend it on down to the last bean. Interesting.

Gnome - you have been traduced by The Meeja... stop hating older people and start looking at the people who caused the financial crisis.... politicians, deregulation, banking practices etc.

You have been sold a pig in a poke and are attempting to swallow it whole!

"I find the whole idea of being entitled to a parent's money/property extremely weird. Given that OPs parents are living their own lives and OP wants some of it and is sounding more and more bitter by the post, I am my parents have been equally transparent - they too are spending everything. Living their lives to the full. As they are entitled to do! I wouldn't dream of begrudging them any consumerist moment they had enjoyed!"

You are free to be as mean spirited and ungenerous with your wealth as you please.

OP - if my parents did this I would feel very unloved.

In fact my dad DID do something a bit like this. He did equity release on his and my mum's home without discussing it with anyone, and died a few years later. My mum realised what the consequences were for us (she hadn't understood the way the equity release had worked when she put her signature to it at the time), and was very upset. My sister paid the equity release off and is paying a mortgage on the house, so my mother's estate won't accumulate more debt.

I'm very grateful to my mother for thinking of us in this way (and my sister!).

Me? But I haven't even mentioned what I will do... just said I don't feel I have any call on my parents assets!

And, if you read what I did type, I have been told very clearly that there will be nothing left for me to inherit.... and I have no problem with that at all. My parents no longer own a home, they are living off the proceeds and enjoying a retirement they have earned through 40 years of hard work.

If you meant people in general, then it is only mean spirited if someone expects something from you. Otherwise it is just spending what you have.

I don't know why your mum felt in anyway upset at how your dad's actions may impact you and your inheritance. There would have been no consequences for you... unless of course, you fully anticipate selling off her home and benefitting from the sale. Which is what I find weird. Not the having an inheritance, but expecting it and parents actively protecting it, sometimes at cost to themselves.

Thinking that it is only right and proper that parents pass their money on to their children where they can is only entitled if you don't do the same for your children! I certainly would feel pretty miffed if my parents left all their money to the cats protection league, but equally I'll be making very sure that all that I end up leaving goes to my children.

The essence of entitled is surely believing that your inherited wealth is somehow 'earned' and yours to do with entirely as you please, without thought for future generations.

Bloody hell, Nomama and Elephantspoo; you're both talking complete and utter, well-informed sense. What are you doing on Mumsnet? Stop it, now!

OP's parents possibly in some deluded way do actually think they have earned the pensions they now draw down

They have earned their pensions. It's their inheritance and property gains that are luck.

TheChandler - I don't disagree with you, and your observation regarding inheritance tax is a reasonable measure if we wished as a society to deter legacy wealth and promote consumerism. But that effectively only transfers money out of private hands and into corporations and governments. So the poor in society would still be no better off, the middle classes would find it harder to succeed generationally, and the wealthy would remain unaffected. But I see your reasoning.

I'm no socialist, rather I believe in honest work and endeavour being rewarded and encouraged, rather than dependent on luck of birth. Modern thinking generally agrees that the market serves the consumer and therefore a larger number of citizens better than old fashioned socialist policies, and that market often features corporations. But modern competition and antitrust laws encourage competition to ensure lower prices, innovation, quality, etc.. (You could argue that the housing market isn't sufficiently competitive because government controls the supply of building land and planning control so as to favour big players).

But given that we have got inheritance laws the way they are, I think what the OP is observing is one generation of her family (her parents) selfishly squandering an inheritance carefully handed down generation after generation. And I can understand that must be hard to live with, whether you agree with inheritance or not.

So she can't obviously force them to do what she wants with the family farm, but what she can do is control her own reactions. And if that includes telling her parents what they are doing to that family inheritance, then fair enough. They won't like it, obviously. Just as people who retired on final salary pension schemes at 55 from relatively cushy jobs don't like being told they didn't actually work that hard or for that long.

Theoretician - no, if the contributions to a pension pot are 10% of the annual salary then in simple terms 30 years of work earns 3 years of retirement. Investment gains may do better but it is still that order of number. 30 years of work will not normally earn 30 years of retirement.

OP ... You have a horrible blaming attitude - No, that is an assumption you have made. You are free to choose who you marry (I admit I assume you obey UK law in that regard), and you are free to choose what work you do, whether to give up work and raise your children yourself, where you want to live, what you want to feed your children, etc. Those are all decisions you make in a pragmatic choice between what you desire, what effort you are willing to expend, and what you are content to settle for.

I admit, if you want to drive a Ferrari,feed your children caviar and send them to be personally tutored by Guru a in Mozambique, then that may conflicts with choosing a career in Morris dancing and marrying the local newspaper delivery man. But we all get to choose what we do, what we don't do, and how much effort we are willing to expend getting these.

Also, until you have lived on the street, maybe you shouldn't speculate as to why they chose the life paths they did, and why they do as they do.

You have made your choices. Now you look at those around you, the choices they made, and you seem to just be bitter and jealous and resent what you see. Why not be content to be happy with what you have and leave your parent and DF live their lives they way they wish? You have no right to their lives or their wealth. They have done more for you than you acknowledge, and they owe you nothing. Let them be. They seem to be happy. If you want more, then decide how much effort you are willing to expend, and earn more. If the answer is, "I am not willing to expend any effort to improve my lot in life", well then you are free to do as you wish.

Hear, hear, Elephantspoo! Too often on MN, we hear people whingeing about others' life-choices with no acknowledgement of their own responsibility or accountability for their situation. I hate to say it, but it often seems to be gendered, too. Lots of women assuming it's their right to be materially provided for, solely by virtue of their possession of a vagina.

Also, I was struck by this part,

My dh often works 60-80 hour weeks of hard physicial work while df did 9-5 in a local council and got to retire early at 55. He has no idea how different it is today

Gosh, he does work hard. But what do you do? If you really are counting the pennies, then maybe it's time to get a full time job too? Whereas, if you do have the luxury of not working, then maybe you're not so badly-off after all? Most people don't have that choice.

This post is so dripping in entitlement and indignation, I can't help but think it's one of those oh-so-witty parodies. Someone please tell me this is a crass skit on the plot to a Charlotte Bronte novel that I've forgotten about?

I'm no socialist, rather I believe in honest work and endeavour being rewarded and encouraged, rather than dependent on luck of birth.

*But given that we have got inheritance laws the way they are, I think what the OP is observing is one generation of her family (her parents) selfishly squandering an inheritance carefully handed down generation after generation. And I can understand that must be hard to live with, whether you agree with inheritance or not.

So she can't obviously force them to do what she wants with the family farm, but what she can do is control her own reactions. And if that includes telling her parents what they are doing to that family inheritance, then fair enough. They won't like it, obviously. Just as people who retired on final salary pension schemes at 55 from relatively cushy jobs don't like being told they didn't actually work that hard or for that long.*

Yup, with you 100% of the way TheChandler

Its not a life choice being born in a generation without good pensions, jobs and free education.

OP Yes they are the sole heir. I know my granddad and great granddad would be turning in their graves to see the family accet sold to pay for exotic holidays and fast cars whilie their ggc are getting into mountains of debt for education and can't afford a house deposit

OP, I presume you are the 'ggc' that you are referring to in the above statement???? Have you asked your parents for financial help with the mountains of debt for education. If so, perhaps they don't agree with how you manage your money. This is NOT a comment about private education but more about trying to understand the parents motivation for spending your inheritance. Iyswim

Well, pensions now are less regulated, you aren't locked into an annuity, you can take them with you, they are yours, rather than having any number of the damn things that you have to track down and claim upon retirement. So they are, in some aspects, far better than the ones our parents had (or my DH now he is starting to look at where the hell his contributions went).

Jobs... well there are jobs out there, even if some are less than wonderful, and, if you vote in elections or with your feet, you, the next generation, could make ending zero hour contracts one of the thing you contribute to employment law. Those much maligned older bods got rid of quite a lot of unfair policies... now it is your turn.

And education is free (outside of taxes) - read Martin Lewis and stop believing the hype about poor people being priced out of University. Degrees are still free at point of entry for all and remain free for those who don't reach the salary threshold.

You really are whinging without the benefit of a safety net now!

I agree twoopsie they have undoubtedly been lucky.

You're basically saying "my parents have been luckier than me, they should share that luck with me".

But the thing is, you've been luckier than lots of other people. Are you going to share with those other people?