To have the rage at parents who don't provide sanpro

[Wonc]

Had coffee today with a friend who works as a school secretary at my DC's school and she told me there are a number of parents who think it is the school's responsibility to provide sanitary products.
She said it is always the same girls every month.

WTAF?

I am mortified for these girls. As an introvert, I would have died having to go and ask someone each month for sanpro.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about it . She seemed very blasé about it, whereas I can't believe this is a thing.

We weren't poor (private school and ponies) but a box of tampons (10!) was only bought every 3-4 months and had to be shared with my older sister. We never had pads. I almost exclusively used tissues at home and sometimes would just sit on the toilet for hours to 'save' a precious tampon. Luckily I had an en-suite bedroom, with us being well off and all. I got £10 a month pocket money (early '90s) so I did buy my own but nothing except school uniform was provided (not even stationary) so there wasn't a lot left over for sanpro after basics like bus fares and I was a kid so sometimes I would fecklessly buy something like a mars bar even though I knew I was due on the next week. I didn't get a bra until I was working.

Tissues and kitchen towel do not cut it in school. They disintegrate and you don't have the privacy to clean yourself up properly.

Sorry Catsmother I didn't read your post properly.

I think this is an important discussion to have, because I didn't realise this was an issue - and I work with young people.

My friend wasn't gossiping. She is one of the kindest, most approachable people I know and she feels genuinely concerned.

It has been discussed at a school level and no real solution has been found, other than keep supplying them - which is, of course good. There was some talk of a vending machine, but it was realised that many girls won't have access to money to purchase them.

I think this is an important discussion to have - for us, as women to be aware of. I really like the idea up thread of ALL teaching staff having a supply, and girls being able to approach whichever member of staff they felt comfortable with. I will suggest this to my friend.

It is an awful situation for girls to be in and it makes me so angry/sad that anyone should not have access to a basic necessity.

And I agree tissues and kitchen towel would be horrendous for anyone with a heavier period.

Cheesee your friend's mother is a true champion.

You have explained the situation in your family so well and so clearly. I hope the posters up thread who didn't think this could happen, have read it and reconsidered. I am so sorry this happened to you and am very aware that for many children, your situation is all too familiar. I hope they all have someone in their life like your friend's mum.

If I were in the school office I would suspect dire poverty or even abuse of some kind in the home, certainly neglect, and if this was a persistent issue with certain girls I would wonder if a child protection investigation was warranted.

I know way back in the late 70s/80s in my secondary school in Dublin, the girls from a certain family were always trying to borrow pads or money for the vending machine, and eventually it was discovered that this was a symptom of major problems in their family. This was the one thing that was noticed and luckily for them, flagged by the PE teacher.

This is an issue that crops up in foreign aid -- girls unable to go to school one week in every four because they do not have sanpro, women using unhygienic rags and contracting infections. Lack of sanpro and embarrassment in school during a period is not an issue that should be affecting girls in the first world (or anywhere) but lack of general availability is not the problem here, and the problem is very easily and cheaply remedied.

Your friend should not be discussing what happens within the school it is confidential

If the friend named names, it would be a lack of confidentiality, Tron, but not if she mentioned the situation in a general way.

It has been discussed at a school level and no real solution has been found, other than keep supplying them

So the school hasn't spoken to the girl's parents?

They should be ashamed of themselves.

If they regularly turned up with no PE kit, the school would be all over it.

It sounds like a shit school. Your friend should complain to the LA.

I always used to go to the nurse to get sanpro and condoms really didn't bother me at the time . bit embarrassed about it now though. it wasn't that my mum wouldn't buy them for me, I was just extremely disorganized and irregular.

I disagree with you WorraLiberty. I don't think it is a shit school. I think they are doing the best they can in a difficult situation.

I don't know if they have spoken to parents. I don't think so though.
I know you will jump on me for that, but so be it. Tbh, I find your tone bordering on aggressive, certainly direct.
I understand your frustration that this is a shit situation. Truly the school is not shit though. You'll have to trust me on that.

It appears that the schools policy and issue has been discussed in depth which should not happen, the school secretary should not have disclosed information

I have no reason to be aggressive to a random person on the internet, talking about random people's periods.

But I do think it's a shit school from what you've said.

The easy way out is to keep supply sanitary towels instead of getting to the bottom of it.

As I said, they'd soon get to the bottom of it if they were turning up with no PE kit, or even the wrong shoes...and they cost a damn site more than a cheap pack of non branded towels.

I remember asking my step mother for one of hers and got told that by now "I really was old enough to ensure I had enough as it was almost every time I came" Considering the fact I only visited my father once a month and I have had irregular periods most of my life I really do not think she was right there.. My dad and stepmum were not short of money it would have been no skin of her nose to give me a pad or 2. (his 3rd wife however showed me early on where she kept hers and said just help yourself if you ever need)

Thankfully though my mother did many things wrong.oddly as i grew up pads and tampons were always supplied and stashed by the toilet. I never felt embarrassed about having the need for them.

However this thread has made me decide what I shall put in the food bank donation at work (I work for a supermarket) and I shall likely also get a pack for dd1 & 2's school and for dd3's school. It had simply never occurred to me this might be a issue for some girls.

In an ideal world they would be in every public toilet and they would be free...

I agree with Worra on this, Wonc. I think if the only solution the school has come up with is to keep supplying them (and they obviously do), there is absolutely no reason for the secretary to be talking about it with you.

What did you want to get out of the thread really? Your 'WTAF' is a bit disquieting to me really. Just because you don't understand how it could happen doesn't mean that there aren't reasons for it happening and this isn't to do with fecklessness or uncaring necessarily.

I had very heavy periods, there wasn't that much money at home and I can quite remember eking out a single packet of towels, not being allowed to use tampons for some reason, and trying to keep the towels clean as much as possible by topping them with toilet paper or kitchen roll. There weren't 'pound shops' then and sanpro was relatively expensive, it's comparatively cheaper now.

As for the posters blethering on about 'sanpro' as a term... is that your only contribution? It's really distracting and completely pointless.

I see what you are saying LyingW, but if we don't talk about issues and in particular, issues in our schools, how do we create awareness?

I think that your point is very valid, Wonc, we do need to talk about this but we need to treat it in the same way as we do FSM and there needs to be a point to it, not just general chat (meant more kindly than 'gossip'). We don't discuss the children who need them, they're just provided. Surely we could do the same with sanpro? It's small potatoes really.

I would really support a campaign for that and perhaps that is something that MN would stand behind? Everytime I go to the loo in services I see the advertising for 'sanpro packs' to be sent to Somalia or other areas where women are not able to access this and it makes me so sad. I didn't realise it was this endemic in the UK but then again, why wouldn't it be? It's just another thing that girls wouldn't talk about.

If the foodbanks will accept it then great - they should publicise that more so that people will add this to their lists of donated items.

The Secretary of State for Health, Jeremy Hunt, could be a good guest for MN perhaps?

It's excellent to talk about this, to raise awareness and get things done for the good of the public. It's not good when it sounds like an over the fence gossip, although I accept that your friend is kind and I don't believe you meant it that way either. It's just a sensitive subject for many of us.

If we were ruled by women, or men had periods, they would of course be provided free to everyone!

Has reminded me i need to make sure we've a stash in for when we open the Crisis shelter this year, often get asked for them, and somehow they don't seem to appear from main warehouse with general stores. Great idea to donate them to Dous banks, Mums often go without necessary things got themselves to make sure kids don't go without, this is just one more thing in that category I'm sure

I don't think handing out mooncups is a great solution. I remember spending an awkward hour trying to help a friend insert am applicator tampon when she was twelve/thirteen- we gave up in the end and she continued with towels for as long as I knew her. I also spent an awkward hour trying to remove a friend's contraceptive cap for her, both fifteen year olds. Both incidents were in bedrooms where we were sure we wouldn't be interrupted. I can't see eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen years olds fiddling around in their friends' coochies in school toilets between bells for lessons trying to change mooncups.

And yes, I believe that some young people from both families in poverty and families with the person in control of the finances (healthy) are not being provided with appropriate sanpro. Of course, there'll also be times where a young person is forgetful.

As long as identities have been protected, I don't feel uncomfortable that the secretary of this school has prompted this discussion. We're now all talking and thinking about it, so the divulgence of information has been useful. Now that were talking and thinking about it, the first step towards doing something has been started.

A new movement could start here- Sanpro For All. We consider it without question for other countries, so we can take action to make sure it happens here too.

There's a part of me that thinks that sanitary products should be free wishful thinking

Anyway, I'm a form tutor and one message I always put out is that in my stationary cupboard, I have a pink zip up bag filled with pads. Loads of girls get caught short for various reasons and turn up at my door red-faced. I tell them not to be daft and to just grab some. I'm glad to help.

There have been regular faces, some are just extremely disorganised, some are extremely heavy. One new girl visits me every month and I know she grabs a load at a time. She also never has a pen and no school jumper. We've already flagged her up with the CP Officer.

Teenaged girls are disorganised but also, yes poverty does really exist. And it isn't caused by feckless mothers spending the family allowance on gin, fags and scratch cards. V. irritated by sunny's "come off it tampons only cost £1.50". just waiting for the lecture that rich middle class women give about good food not being expensive but about buying healthy cheap ingredients and learning to cook. Some people really don't have a clue.

It makes no difference at all whether a girl is forgetful or irregular or has neglectful parents. No girl should be punished or shamed in any way for not having sanpro when she needs it no matter what the reason. We should always be ready and willing to be kind to other women/girls if they ask. Better still, nobody should have to ask.

So the school hasn't spoken to the girl's parents?

maybe the person dealing with the girl was astute enough to notice the girl absolutely didn't want that? As is evidenced on this thread, there are plenty of us who went without sanpro, and having school contact our parents would have been the last thing we wanted or needed.

As I said, they'd soon get to the bottom of it if they were turning up with no PE kit, or even the wrong shoes...and they cost a damn site more than a cheap pack of non branded towels.

you have no idea what you're talking about. From the child's perspective lack of PE kit or wrong shoes is nowhere near as personal and embarrassing. Comparing lack of PE kit to lack of sanpro is comparing apples with oranges. On a scale of 1 to 10, turning up at school without PE kit is a 2 or a 3. Lack of sanpro is a 10. Turning up without PE kit can't be hidden. Lack of sanpro can be hidden. Periods are so very personal to a young girl. PE kits are neutral, there is no embarrassment factor attached to them. As in, you will never hear a child say "I am mortified to even say I need a PE kit" but you will hear that often about sanpro. Also, kids from homes like mine are so used to not having the right PE kit, that by age 11 or 12 it's water off a ducks back to (again) turn up without one. Dealing with heavy periods and no sanpro is a very new and scarey and deeply embarrassing thing for an 11 or 12 year old.

But I do think it's a shit school from what you've said.

Are you sure that's not just sour grapes because this thread has proven your belief that it's just silly forgetful girls who ask school for sanpro to be categorically wrong?

It appears that the schools policy and issue has been discussed in depth which should not happen, the school secretary should not have disclosed information

really? it appears to me that this thread, and the discussion that prompted it, has taught a lot of very judgmental women with harsh (and totally wrong) opinions of some young teenagers a valuable lesson. And of course no laws have been broken as long as identities have been protected. If you have never been the talked-about child, take it from one who was, those adults talking amongst each other improved our lives. Not to mention the increase in awareness that benefits all unfortunate children. I don't see anyone anyone on page 6 claiming they must all be forgetful airhead girls turning up asking for sanpro the way they said it on page 1 and 2. That awareness is sorely needed.

I have worked in secondary schools for 25 years. Our office is stocked with hundreds of sanitary towels and we rarely get asked for them.

I work in an area of high deprivation and have never come across the poverty issue described on here although it is possible I wouldn't know if the girls are too embarrassed to ask.

What is far more of an issue is girls asking to go home to change their clothing and then not returning to school, sometimes genuine, sometimes swinging the lead.

My best friend works in a school where parents send children in without breakfast or lunch. Social services are involved with a large proportion of their children. Issues like abuse are as big as key stage achievements.

She talks to me, not naming children nor gossiping gleefully but because she needs to talk about the distressing thing she faces at work and I'm a professional non gossipy person.

Keeping silent about the neglect that children face means people can exist in a bubble world of.... they should... as if this would solve bigger issues they they can contemplate

Parents should do lots of things. Sanitary protection being a basic....breakfast....lunch.....emotional support... letting children witness horror at home or inappropriate sexual activity. Parents should do a lot. Friend is in constant contact with social services to the point that case meetings about children, emergency removals are an integral part of her working week.

I don't live in a city. I live rurally and she works in a nearby town. This is the reality for some children. Poverty may explain some but alcohol and drugs...crime explains the biggest issues.
The school could send a note home with child saying it's not acceptable as per Worra's advice. Poor child wouldn't hand it over because of the tirade they'd get. Social services already aware. Children being monitored... Do you really think a letter informing them that little x had to ask for a towel this lunchtime again is going to be life changing? Meanwhile child won't ask to school sec again