Page 12 | To ask if you don't do Santa/ Elf in the shelf you don't spoil it for others?

CatWreathkeith · 2014-12-09T08:42:52+00:00

Last year Dneice was told matter of factly by a 4yo at school there is no such thing as Father Christmas and it's your parents. In reception. This year another child has told her that you can buy an EOTS from Amazon, because her mum has shown her it. Why? Why would you do that? Why not say there are only a few elves that get to leave the North Pole and we didn't get one? --Or if your child wants one that badly get a cheap one from the pound shop-- Grrr [angry]

TheMuppetsSingChristmas · 11/12/2014 16:59

Footlight - Santa has only ever brought stockings and hence low value, small nick nacks in our house anyway, so wouldn't have been much of a loss but I wouldn't personally have cancelled him, no, but I'm also not sure that Surfs approach was that much different from my own in removing some of the 'extras' and festivities surrounding christmas. I didn't think either of us deserved the comments and faux/po faced shock that you and TooHasty porfessed, at any rate.

murmuration · 11/12/2014 23:46

I had been planning to not 'do' Santa, but I'm not sure I have much of a say in it. My 2yo today just told me Santa and snow men are 'not real' (I have said nothing on the topic so far, other than identify images on paper or the TV as 'Santa'), but then got a bit confused because she told me pictures of people were 'real', looked at Santa, and decided he was a person and thus 'real', too. Absolutely no idea from where she is getting the real/not real dichotomy, either. Not me or DH. She also appears to be under the impression that the tooth fairy regularly visits our house and will bring her Christmas presents. I think she can build plently of magic on her own, without my input.

SurfsUp1 · 12/12/2014 03:44

Footlight

Words fail me

They failed me too. Hence the Santa cancellation.

LilysSummerBreeze · 12/12/2014 03:45

EOTS pisses me off. Im sick of seeing the damned things.

I havent told any of my kids whether santa is real or not. I dont need to make up a fat man to have a magical fun time. In fact when I was a child (and this sort of thing is probably why I had no friends) I thought my mother was a giant hypocrite. She told me off for leaving the door open yet come december shes handing a man shes never met keys to her home so he can creep around in the night while we sleep unaware?

I also thought her story on how parents buy presents wrap them, send them to santa and then he brings them back was ridiculous. Cut out the middle man for crying out loud.

I was quite relieved when I found out he wasnt real as up until that point I thought inlived with a pile of freaks who couldnt be consistent or do things the easy way.

So erm. Yeah. That turned into a bit of a rant about santa and my mum.

Id trust my daughter not to ruin it for other kids but I think the middle one would do it for spite so ill probably be a bit more careful not to slip up with him.

I was annoyed when I said I would buy DD something for christmas and she said no santa buys the presents. Hes taking the credit now after I spend my hard earned money and hours trawling the shops.

Fuck you santa claus.

SurfsUp1 · 12/12/2014 03:47

TooHasty

What's the point of having Santa watch and see if children are naughty or nice if he's going to give them presents regardless of appalling behaviour?
My boys genuinely do not deserve presents from Santa this year, so they're not getting any. Seems pretty simple to me.

LilysSummerBreeze · 12/12/2014 03:48

(The last bit is a joke by the way. Im not really pissed off. As long as she loves the presents I dont mind at all).

SurfsUp1 · 12/12/2014 04:15

there's no such thing as a bad kid. Just ineffective parents.

yy to this

Surely telling them Santa will bring them presents if they're good and then giving them presents from Santa even when they have behaved terribly is ineffective parenting? It is in my book. I would never make a threat I wasn't prepared to carry out.
I'm not cancelling Christmas, just Santa.

bigbluestars · 12/12/2014 06:44

surfs up - I agree - it is ineffective.

Santa comes to all children. Just like I will always love my children, no matter how they behave. It's unconditional, like Santa bringing gifts.

But I don't punish or reward anyway.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 12/12/2014 06:59

Surfsup I think you are spot on cancelling Santa. Your kids are still going to have Christmas. It's nice to see a parent with the courage to carry through a threat. The only way to make your kids take your threats seriously is to not make empty threats.

howtodrainyourflagon · 12/12/2014 07:25

I imagine it's the case that some of the children doing elf on the shelf arettelling others at school how special they are having an elf from the north pole visit them. If one of my dc came home asking why the elf hadn't chosen us (the 7yo and 9yo are intelligent enough to see through it but the 4yo might be taken in) do you really expect me to tell my dc that there are only a few elves and frankly they weren't special enough for a visit? Yabu. I think I'd say something about different people having different traditions and make it clear that it's a toy elf the parents have purchased rather than an actual thing.

bigbluestars · 12/12/2014 07:47

OP- "Why? Why would you do that? Why not say there are only a few elves that get to leave the North Pole and we didn't get one?
"

That's downright mean. Iwould much rather tell my kids they are just toys and it's all a game.

Santa is an accepted part of christmas tradition. Elf on the shelf is not.

SurfsUp1 · 12/12/2014 07:49

bigbluestars

I love my kids unconditionally and I will be giving them Christmas gifts.

Santa, on the other hand, is very clearly conditional. It's a very clear deal that Santa makes. I didn't make it up and I didn't set the rules, but I will not have my kids growing up imagining that I am the only one who imposes consequences for nasty behaviour.

They are already actively trying to behave better so as to avoid a repeat performance next year. At the end of last week they shook hands and decided that if they pretend to be friends then it should make it easier to not be mean to each other. As a result this week has been significant better - the best week we've had in months, in fact.

TalesOfTheCity · 12/12/2014 08:12

surfsup1 I didn't ever tell my child the bit about being Santa watching/knowing and not bringing presents if children are naughty, but I see your point that IF you do, then you should be willing to follow through.

Fallingovercliffs · 12/12/2014 10:59

I think some people are overthinking this. If my parents said we weren't going to get any pocket money or somesuch for behaving badly, they followed through. On the other hand, we kind of generally knew that when they said Santa won't bring you anything if you don't behave it was an idle threat. I think we just saw Santa as someone who only withdrew presents if you did something absolutely horrendous which of course none of us would do. It was never a big deal and it didn't affect our understanding of treats being withdrawn for bad behaviour the rest of the year.

ZeViteVitchofCwismas · 12/12/2014 11:07

Because when dsis found £80 in an account that our gran had opened for her as a child she wanted to spend it on something that the dc would treasure for more than 5 minutes, so got one for dd and one for my nieces.

Thats soooo sweet and what an excellent idea!

I too was an grimancing " oh lord whats this EOTS crap" hey ho, last year, we had our little Elf Ellie come to stay, for 5 nights only, and to our own rules, and letter...ie not to spy on children for being bad or good but to see what they are like and what presents they make like...

My DD was utterly enchanted by it, she still talks about the elf who had the temerity to paint her nose I can still remember her running into my room to see if Ellie had painted my nose, her hands flew to face in utter shock when she realized this Elf was very naughty and had done mummies nose..The next morning we couldn't find ellie and we thought after nose antics she must have been recalled to NP, opened the front door and who is sat on dashboard with shaving foam in hand? and how had written on windscreen?

She LOVED IT. Not sure about doing it this year though.....maybe next....

Op I agree with you, its fucking miserable to go and piss on everyones parade like this, it makes me very cross.

Yes there will be the bratt in the play ground who tells everyone its not true but usually parents are able to convery to their dc who know to keep it special and the dc are nice enough to agree...its a right of passage to find out...but at 4....NO.

ZeViteVitchofCwismas · 12/12/2014 11:29

elf

our elf said something like

" hello this is ellie the elf come from our workshops to see you for a short time, we don't visit all the children but when we can we send an elf along to say hi and see what the children are interested in and it helps FC see what surprise presnts to give or if we cant get stiff on list, what else to get....beware the elf assigned to this role are young adn naughty....

murmuration · 12/12/2014 21:47

zevite, oh I like your EOTS much better! Seeing what you like, rather than being a spy for Santa. Makes it much friendlier in my eyes.

Bulbasaur · 12/12/2014 22:19

Santa, on the other hand, is very clearly conditional. It's a very clear deal that Santa makes. I didn't make it up and I didn't set the rules, but I will not have my kids growing up imagining that I am the only one who imposes consequences for nasty behaviour.

Uhm... But you are Santa.

You don't think that they'd quickly put two and two together once they realize that Santa isn't real?

They are already actively trying to behave better so as to avoid a repeat performance next year. At the end of last week they shook hands and decided that if they pretend to be friends then it should make it easier to not be mean to each other. As a result this week has been significant better - the best week we've had in months, in fact.

Which is exactly my point in shooting yourself in the foot. Great. You got them to behave in the month of December. Now what about the other 11 months when you don't have drastic and dramatic threats to make? At some point you need to figure out a way to help them co-exist and live together without making threats at every turn.

On a more light hearted note though, I did find a place that gets chocolate coals to put in stockings. I got some for DH this year for his stocking, and I'll be asking him what he did to deserve coal. I might make it a playful tradition to do it to DD as well as she gets older.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 12/12/2014 23:19

Yes there will be the bratt in the play ground who tells everyone its not true

So because a five year old is unable to contain a big secret that he has found out he is a brat?
There is a reason why most sensible people would not tell a 5 year old a secret that they don't want everyone to know. Unfortunately Santa isn't something that can be kept a secret from every five year old.
Only on mumsnet would people think 5 year olds are brats for being unable to keep secrets.

Lilmissconcerned · 12/12/2014 23:31

I'm with dorasee... What a load of commercialised crap... (Sorry) the thing itself looks creepy, it's a strange idea too...I Must be grinch number 2?!

LynetteScavo · 12/12/2014 23:32

But if you send your DC to school, with children from families of various beliefs, you have to expect some children to say FC isn't real. If those kids don't celebrate Christmas at home, they are going to have been asking their parents some straight questions, and got some straight answers.

Children said it to me at school as a child. Of course I didn't believe them...I was always going to believe my Mum over Bogey Nose Nigel.

Some kids will also say God doesn't exist. Who are my DC going to believe? Probably not the random kid.

Haushinka · 12/12/2014 23:47

I think adults analyse these things more than children.

My DD has told me a boy said Santa isn't real. I just said "woah, he's a bit silly saying that so close to Christmas..."

She seems 100 percent convinced Santa is real still.

I think the you can buy the elf on amazon thing is mean, but EOTS is a more recent thing, Santa has more of a mystery as he is never seen ( just his helpers )

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/12/2014 00:22

You said Elf on the Shelf is not new -as you have done it for 3 years. ( a whole 3 years!) I've never heard of it except on here.

This is your explanation of it.

" Little scout elves turn up on the 1st December, often with an advent calendar.

They fly back to the North Pole each night and report to Santa whether dc have been good.

Then they come back an make mischief, eg do snow angels in your flour or decorate the Christmas tree with dc's underwear. And are in a different place each morning.

Dc mustn't touch them otherwise the mafia disappears and they can't fly back. and the dc will realise they are just toys "

That sounds like a clever and cynical marketing pitch to sell tat not a tradition.

SurfsUp1 · 13/12/2014 07:45

TalesOfTheCity
Don't they know the songs though?

You better not shout, you better not cry, you better not pout I'm telling you why…"

"He sees you when your sleeping, he knows when you're awake…"

I haven't really needed to impart any of this information to my kids - it's fairly universally understood from what I can tell.
They actually started off the whole "don't do that - Santa's watching" thing (as a new means by which to dob on each other) and I guess it just became a seasonal change from the normal reprimands. Anyhoo, they really have been bad. Not just naughty. Properly horrible, so they should consider themselves lucky to getting anything at all. They won't though.

SurfsUp1 · 13/12/2014 07:48

Uhm... But you are Santa.

They don't know that!

They would be more likely to put 2 and 2 together if Santa says he only brings toys to good boys and girls, but then brings them toys anyway!