To think teachers overuse parents

[RichTeas]

I am really starting to wonder about the received wisdom that parental input is crucial for a child's schooling success? Every politician and every teacher (especially in the state sector) repeats this mantra over and over, and clearly some parental teaching is not going to hurt, but is it really an efficient way of doing things? Most of us are not experts, and end up wasting time finding second rate examples or demonstrating old ways of calculating etc.. Not to mention the inevitable arguments from children who don't wish to be taught by parents. Teachers seem quite happy to assign hours of homework at primary with the cheerful reminder of not to spend more than 20 minutes on it, meanwhile in the school they're doing all manner of arts and crafts, dress-up, cooking, while parents get stuck with the boring sit-down learning.

Schools don't do this for the larfs. Over and above the reasonable supports of regular reading in primary and overseeing the conditions of homework, i.e. make sure it's done and handed in at all levels, it's OFSTED-driven. Oh, and the hordes of parents who demand this shite.

Floozey

I also think the education system needs to recognise the vast differences in time available to families outside of school. A stay at home parent has hours every day to do all this stuff with their kid. I'm a single parent who works full time with a long commute and I can spend 60hrs a week out of the house.

However a parent who is SAH also might not have unlimited time for the school to exploit either. It was a good job I was a SAHP when my DC was only offered part time schooling (even though had a fully funded 1 to 1) and I was practically forced to volunteer to allow my DC access to the whole of the curriculum. I doubt I could have kept down a job at the time. Other SAHPs might also be caring for elderly relatives or have health issues themselves and even if they do nothing else it is not necessarily their 'calling' in life to volunteer at the school - they might be best suited to another type of volunteering.

Thenewstatesmen I'm not saying the blogger is wrong or that this hasn't been the experience of many. But you have to examine her 'data' - she isn't a primary teacher so her comments on how children learn to read are not those of an informed person. Most of her stories come from internet forums so they are very likely to be untrue or exaggerated. Forums easily make it appear that 'loads' of people feel the same when actually it is maybe 1% of all parents in the uk. Just because she writes a blog and is a teacher doesn't make it reliable.

None of her experiences match mine. Literally none. Our kids are worked very hard - too hard in my opinion. So it is only fair that the opinions of teachers on here is given as much weight as her blog.

I would agree that it depends a lot on the school. My nieces' school seems very good (a bit heavy on the dressing up days, but generally very thorough). But then, I've known of other parents whose experiences echo those of the blogger.

I agree with the comment about 'profligate' use of time.

Not about lazy teachers but simply agreeing that there was too much precious time wasted in my DSs Prep school on 'dressing up days' and other really non core activities.

My feeling is that teachers are under pressure to use 'new methods' when actually just sitting and reading a book with a child using a mix of phonics, remembering what a the words 'cat', 'the', 'and' look like.

The truth as one teacher admitted to me was that most reasonably able children just remember words after a while and fairly quickly the whole process of phonics is dropped because a child with a good memory will just remember what common words look like and phonics is just to laborious. That is why in practice doing lots of reading is actually really about drumming words into the child's long term memory.

That means putting in the hours and its parents that are increasingly doing it. I agree, lets cut the junk time at school and get back to the core.

"That is why in practice doing lots of reading is actually really about drumming words into the child's long term memory. That means putting in the hours and its parents that are increasingly doing it."

I really agree with this - lots of reading boosts literacy like nothing else!

If your DC is a slow reader in late primary/early secondary, you can boost reading speed significantly by encouraging him/her to binge read for a fortnight: four hours a day minimum x 14 days. It really works.

In my experience it happens at primary schools alot. I have 4 grown up children and 2 GC at school. Every week there is reading, spellings, tables, frequent projects and things they suggest you look at, like we are starting Tudors next term so it would be useful to read such and such. This has been the case with six of them and involves 4 primary schools in 2 different counties.

I also agree with what someone said about IEPs, my GS had one and we all worked at making sure he did what was supposed to happen at home and then his parents asked about the bits which were supposed to happen at school. If he says he hasn't done whatever it is at school that day the question goes in his reading record book and then it does happen.

My experience of senior schools is quite different.

If your DC is a slow reader in late primary/early secondary, you can boost reading speed significantly by encouraging him/her to binge read for a fortnight: four hours a day minimum x 14 days. It really works.

Bonsoir I believe this is far too simplistic. Although my DC was reading pretty fluently before starting school, I can appreciate there are many skills that reading incorporates.

Problems with eyesight, for example, scanning, figure ground discrimination skills can take longer to develop for some which can have a knock on effect for reading. Equally variances in short term memory development can have an effect.

'Binge reading' will not necessarily help develop these skills any faster, especially if it is the cause of frustration.

What's wrong with parents spending time reading with their children? It's a parents job, IMO -- I learnt to read at the age of 3 or so by my mother reading to and with me; my DS learned the same way. We could both read before starting school.

What's wrong with parents spending time reading with their children?

Nothing at all. My DC and I could read before starting school. However it is the school's job to teach reading. It is not their job to dictate exactly what parents do either. I also believe parents and children should be left to choose the books they enjoy sharing together themselves, which develops a love of reading and not be bogged down by school scheme books, which does not.

I think the OP's idea that parental input makes no difference is bonkers. But what I'd like to know is, since all the research suggests that homework (apart from reading support) at primary level is a waste of time, why on earth do schools still set it? Me and DH give LOADS of support to our kids, but I'd really rather not spend my time helping yr 2 DD to look up and copy out 6 key facts about Peru into her homework book, or practise spelling the word 'frightfully' when she'll have forgotten it again by 2 minutes after her spelling test. It's a total waste of time for both of us when we could be doing cooking, craft, reading together or practising her violin. I do it because I don't want the teacher to think I am a rubbish parent, not because I think it makes the blindest bit of difference to her. Luckily she's happy to sit and do it. If she wasn't, I'm damned if I'd make it into a battle.

So - any primary teachers on the thread - why do you persist in setting this kind of homework when all the evidence suggests it's a waste of time?! Is it headmasters? ofsted?

"What's wrong with parents spending time reading with their children? It's a parents job, IMO -- I learnt to read at the age of 3 or so by my mother reading to and with me; my DS learned the same way. We could both read before starting school."

Sure. I mean, I do the same thing. But the trouble is, what about parents who are too illiterate/stressed out/disadvantaged/overstretched/non-English speaking to be able to do effectively support their children? The more the curriculum "leaves up to" parental input, the worse inequality is likely to be.

If little ones get loads of homework, and I think my GC do, it limits the other things they can do. Schools can't provide for each childs individual interests, one of mine was very musical and had music lessons for two instruments at primary school age. It was her passion but it was hard fitting in lessons, practice, groups she played with etc. Sporty kids can be the same. There is more to education than reading, spellings and tables.

I do it because I don't want the teacher to think I am a rubbish parent

I do help with school HW it as I don't want my DC labelling themselves of being labelled as bad at something.

I do it at KS2 level - though as they get older they do need less support - as they lose break times if they haven't completed things or get below a certain level in certain tests.

They also want to do it and get very agitated and upset if it not -partly as they get rewards like point if they do and partly the sanctions if they don't - though this don't always translate into them sitting down without fight but more throwing massive tantrums and fits often fuelled by anxiety if they fail to do it and it needs to be handed in .

I do the extra stuff because it seem to make a massive positive difference to them - encourages them to think they can do things - means they don't disengage with school and learning.

It also will hopefully mean that we get past their current problems and weak areas instead of going through a school system struggling to cope and find coping mechanism and being criticized for genuine difficulties - as happened to me.

Dazzle I do too. Tbh is was a saving grace for my DC. It enabled me to actually comment and ask relevant questions concerning what my DC could do. I did end up teaching at home and found my DC could pick things up quite quickly, even though by the end of the school day tiredness was a factor. It gave me hope too as I knew then for certain just how capable my DC was, regardless of any 'difficulties'.

However what also happened was that I could see where homework was quite irrelevant or badly set as I was the one who spent a great proportion of my time engaging with my child's learning. When this happens and schools are setting themselves up as 'experts' you have to try very hard not to feel resentful. Added to this great diplomacy then becomes an absolute must when talking to the teachers in order to maintain a positive relationship with the school.

I sometimes think it would be nice to be able to trust school to educate well more....Schools calling parents lazy when they complain because think the homework is too much - essentially busy work or inappropriate, does not help.

busy work, yes, that's a great way of putting it! If it were truly set with great care, fine, but mostly it isn't. Some weeks DD has had a word search to do! I really had to bite my tongue for that one. Surely to god she'd have been better off doing drawing at the kitchen table or noodling on the piano, or playing with her playmobil or almost anything but looking for diagonal words on the theme of the sodding victorians!

I don't disagree with any of that capsium - and I do feel resentful at times.

Half term - well TBH all holiday work usually topic work always gets me down.

Between childcare, obligatory family visits and educational days out or just fun ones and general need for a break- it bloody hard to not end up day before go back being taken up completely with HW - which is never as quick as implied - and in craft and project work sometimes you can see other DC work has had really heavy parental input to point you wonder if DC has touched it - and really what's the point then.

Word searches - one of my DC couldn't do them she had underlying eye problems - (in fact I thought my inability to do these most of my life was related to my dyslexia ) so a five minute activity for most DC a huge nightmare for us.

Obviously I talked to her teacher - who'd never heard of such a thing - and thought it was just a matter of practise . She needed so much help we'd end up pretty much doing the dam things.

She can do them now.

It's like the "fun" games and activates my DC were given in nursery and reception - anything but fun and mainly seem to be based around the idea if it wasn't set I wouldn't be interacting with my DC. They seemed just a waste of time and patronising. I assume OFSTED and pressure from other parents - as often the results handed in didn't seem to be looked at so seriously doubt it was the was teachers led idea.

capsium - sure you can add in "in the absence of any underlying disorder or diagnosis". Binge reading remains a very cheap and effective way of gaining reading speed.

Bonsoir I simply dislike the term 'disorder' being overused and many may not have received a diagnosis. I believe children's development is really quite varied and it is not uncommon to have a slightly different pattern of eye or short term memory development which might not have completely settled early on in a child's school career but not cause big problems, long term either.

Binge reading may not help in these cases, using books with a more readable typeface and resting the eyes, just as examples, to start with, might.

That would be addressing a very different issue, however.

Bonsoir Reading is not a singular issue, as in it incorporates multiple skills, which can compliment and compete with each other.

i was going to ask capsium whether she home educates and if not, why not when she so clearly holds teachers and teaching in such low regard.

But then I remembered it's not capsium's thread, though I'm sure people would understand why I'd think that

...she so clearly holds teachers and teaching in such low regard.

I don't, in fact I said earlier, that I have come across some fantastic teachers.

However teachers are not infallible or beyond reproach, neither is the education system. I have come across some highly questionable practices, largely with my experience in the way SEN is dealt with and how much is expected from parents in terms of 'filling in the gaps'.

I don't see why I should refrain from commenting or why these experiences should be seen as somehow not relevant.

I do not home educate because my child is entitled to receive a state education. We are also part of our local community and I do not see why we cannot be included into that community, which includes an education for my DC within the local schools.

I sometimes think it would be nice to be able to trust school to educate well more

Schools calling parents lazy

These are the kinds of comment I meant, capsium. If I were in your shoes, it wouldn't matter how much I believed in the principle of all children being entitled to a state education. If I had experienced what you describe on your posts, I would have them out like a shot.