To think teachers overuse parents

[RichTeas]

I am really starting to wonder about the received wisdom that parental input is crucial for a child's schooling success? Every politician and every teacher (especially in the state sector) repeats this mantra over and over, and clearly some parental teaching is not going to hurt, but is it really an efficient way of doing things? Most of us are not experts, and end up wasting time finding second rate examples or demonstrating old ways of calculating etc.. Not to mention the inevitable arguments from children who don't wish to be taught by parents. Teachers seem quite happy to assign hours of homework at primary with the cheerful reminder of not to spend more than 20 minutes on it, meanwhile in the school they're doing all manner of arts and crafts, dress-up, cooking, while parents get stuck with the boring sit-down learning.

Really capsium?
What bad practices have you known teachers be complicit in which were wholly their decision and not driven in any way by their line managers or the government?

The children in class who don't complete their homework tasks are often the ones who struggle with spelling, times tables and self organisation. This impacts on the rest of their learning and means that extra work is having to be put in with them to bring them up to a level where they can keep up with the others.

Going over what they have learnt in class, as well as practising basic mental maths and SPAG, gives children confidence.

Learning to organise time is a life skill that I wish my parents had helped me with. It has taken me most of my adult life to get to grips with planning, and I believe it cost me my O levels at 16.

Anything I can do to help my children have confidence in the classroom and beyond, is a labour of love for me. Any teacher who assists me in producing well rounded young Shockers, I will support wholeheartedly!

I have one child at the moment with a teacher who is a manic over-setter of homework. She is just 9, one of the oldest in the class, and they have reading every night (to be signed off, I don't always do this), spellings, My Maths (online maths), one times table, another literacy task (e.g. crossword with things kids have never heard of, long piece needing punctuation, practicing homophones) and often some project thrown as well. I can't stand it. It is given on Mon and to be handed on Thurs, which means three nights to get it all done.

It is not possible to abandon my 9 year old to get on with it all by herself (I do as much as possible)- she needs me to access and often help with the online maths which is often quite difficult, the literacy task is also usually difficult and so on. I have written across several tasks 'completed but with considerable help from parent' to try to signal to her that she stuff she sets is just too hard for self-study, but she doesn't seem to have taken the hint.

If it were just spellings and reading, I wouldn't mind!

I haven't been in to complain as by nature I am not a complainer and do value teachers' hard work, but I can't understand why in some schools they get almost nothing and in others it moves very quickly to full on secondary type homework.

I would be for none except spellings, reading and times tables as they benefit from repetition which can be done at home- going through concepts in maths/English, even if it only seems like 'reinforcement' is a bad idea.

I taught that dd to read as well in the end after a year of going nowhere at school. I do feel sorry for children whose parents aren't well positioned to take action. I think primary have got it wrong by increasing homework and having so much 'bring a cake' 'send a purple jumper' 'it's non school uniform day' 'send £3.49 for a trip'- it's endless and despite moving to an online system, our school can't operate it and asks for everything signed and paid for in cash/cheque!

Must stop ranting...

Using Statemented, assigned, 1 to 1 to support other children. Being evasive about this.

It is heart breaking to speak to secondary school pupils who can barely read and they say no one at home has ever tried to help them.

I am truly shocked at how badly some DC I know (from literate affluent MC homes) read. I never gave the fact that we read to DD/listened to her read/shared books and newspapers with her/got her audio books/made sure she did drama much attention - I just thought it was common sense to take every opportunity to get her to read aloud, to model great reading aloud and to encourage her to read to herself. She reads really well. Unlike many of her classmates.

^last post to sooty.

Sorry, that should say I have tried to hint to the teacher the tasks are too hard for my dd but she persists anyway.

As for 'reinforcing knowledge' my dd did her homophone task half wrong, so what did that reinforce? If I hadn't stepped in and helped her, she would have just 'learned' something again, incorrectly I don't think reinforcing knowledge is for home in the main, not at primary level when much of the knowledge is rather unstable and needs lots of repetition with a teacher at hand to correct them- pointless to do things wrong at home, it's not a 'learning experience' at all.

And you know for certain that they made that decision without any input from those above them?

That sounds like a nightmare napoleon.

I hardly ever set homework; I bloody hate it.

It is widespread, sooty. This thread shows it,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1862438-Teachers-do-not-adhere-to-Statemented-1-to-1-support-do-not-believe-in-sub-levels-make-APP-assessments-up-How-much-of-what-parents-are-told-by-schools-about-teaching-is-a-box-ticking-exercise

There may have been pressure from above but this does not take away all responsibility from individual teachers. For example grouping, in a certain way, definitely can be done, primarily in order to share an individual's assigned resource, which is for them alone. This does not benefit them, especially when individual needs conflict within the group. However they can be 'policed' in such a way there is little impact on the rest of the class or teacher.

^and what this means is that the parents have to fill in the gaps and teach their child, as well as advocate for their child, in order to ensure they receive the provision that has been made by the LA for them.

capsium I don't doubt that a teacher listening to a child read is a valuable learning exercise (although possibly less as time goes on) and that they should certainly do it some of the time, suggesting that the teacher should do it with every child every week because it's valuable doesn't answer the question about who should teach the class in the hours that would take. Perhaps parent volunteers could teach the class instead, while the teacher hears the reading?

noble mrz said she manages this. IMO schools would do well to us less volunteers, they should be used to add value, not provide the core curriculum.

^use not us. Typo.

And reading is of vital importance to access the whole curriculum. IMO the teaching of it should be made a top priority.

capsium mrz is one teacher in one school. Schools may have vastly differing resources, such as HLTAs. Some schools prioritise reading over everything else, other schools do things differently. While the teacher is reading with one child, what is the rest of the class doing?

(especially in the state sector)

If you really think that people that pay thousands for their children's schooling sit their and do nothing you are being deluded/gullible.

I find it unrealistic that parents feel that they shouldn't have to put input into their children educational success. That's what schools for being the attitude that most annoys me. Actually parents are the primary educators of their children, you and you alone. Teachers teach them, but in a classroom you can have 30 children, whereas at home you will only have one or two you can do so much more. You are showing them by example how important it is to learn. Going through reading, spelling, timetables, maths, taking about school and how important it is, means you are investing in your child and their future academic success.

I been teaching for over 10 years in a wide variety of school settings and I can say without any doubt, that children who have input and support from parents when it comes to learning and behavior succeed far better then those who don't. Its a simple fact. If you don't want to do it, don't BUT in the long run it will be you and your child who will suffer- it will make no difference how much you think it wasn't your responsibility- you will be living with the results.

My mother was withdrawn from school in Ireland when she was 13. He learning was basic and this was sad as she is so smart. The reasoning was she had 15 brothers and sisters and her parents need help at home- they were poor, really poor and you didn't get benefits back then. As a result my mother insisted that her daughters would be educated and go as far as they could go. She learnt as we did. My mother didn't do my HW for me, but she checked what was set, and we sat there until it was don't to the best of our ability. If it was untidy or wrong we redid it. Only when HW was done were we allowed to change out of our uniforms and get into play mode. If we struggled she tried to find ways to help. I found reading next to near impossible, I was half bind among having other SEN issues. I still remember the time she would practice my reading with me, she even bribed me per page. And I am grateful to her because my standard of living is far higher then sadly hers was and is, I have a Phd and a great job. It also did wonders for my siblings. We were poor, working class kids, our father is an alcoholic who doesn't value female children and we all have educations because our Mum cared enough to go the extra mile and not be selfish with her time.

Mybe because I have experienced first had what education can do for people I really value education, not as free childcare which some people seem to have mistaken it for, or as something to take away the academic progress of my children from me so I can do fun stuff, but as something that can improve their lives and give them options in the future. If that takes effort on my part, good, I choose to have children, it'a hard work but rewarding to do what they need rather then what I want.

Cross posted a lot here, but as a teacher I would like to stress that a) Teachers do NOT expect parents to be 'unofficial TA's' - my TA's work bloody hard and it's a bit of an insult that you consider a few hours after school helping your child to be an equivalent workload tbh. B) Parents ARE an invaluable resource in their childs education. Being supportive and encouraging, gentle reminders to do homework, hearing your child read on a regular basis. Supporting sanctions or behaviur strategies highlighted by the school, working in partnership with your childs teacher to allow them to tailor their delivery as best as possible. Keeping the school up to date with anything which may affect your childs learning, accepting if there is an issue and working together to solve it. I can't tell you how many of my pupils - particularly those labelled 'difficult' or 'naughty' have become totally different children when their parents take a genuine interest in their school life! Rant over, I just cannot emphasise the difference parents can make!!

I think it depends, if the additional work supports the class work then I think some homework is appropriate, and the amount should not be reasonable. I think that the homework needs to be specific and am not in favour of craft type work set for home.

I think within a class the teacher should have the discretion over allocating TA work as this will vary lesson by lesson.

Capsium come and teach my year 11 bottom set maths. I have 5 statemented pupils, the other 9 have differing SEN. To differentiate for each child would require hours of planning. In reality I plan 4 activities and hope that pupils make progress. You are forgetting how many pupils a teacher has responsibility for. A non SEN pupil deserves just as much of my time as an sen pupil.

Yabu

I'm rather more inclined to think it is the other way around.

Recently I asked a child's parent to help their child by encouraging them to do homework when it was set as they were getting behind. I received a note saying that they did not agree with telling their children to do their homework. On the other end of the scale I have parents setting their children additional homework themselves because they don't think I set enough.

I didn't question how widespread it was. However I do question your assertion that teachers have to bear responsibility for decisions they have often had very little control over.

Penelope I suspect some of those pupils in your Maths set have had very little support at home.