To think teachers overuse parents

[RichTeas]

I am really starting to wonder about the received wisdom that parental input is crucial for a child's schooling success? Every politician and every teacher (especially in the state sector) repeats this mantra over and over, and clearly some parental teaching is not going to hurt, but is it really an efficient way of doing things? Most of us are not experts, and end up wasting time finding second rate examples or demonstrating old ways of calculating etc.. Not to mention the inevitable arguments from children who don't wish to be taught by parents. Teachers seem quite happy to assign hours of homework at primary with the cheerful reminder of not to spend more than 20 minutes on it, meanwhile in the school they're doing all manner of arts and crafts, dress-up, cooking, while parents get stuck with the boring sit-down learning.

I outsourced maths for that reason - I'm good at maths - DH is excellent - but us trying to teach them our ways wasn't working - getting everyone involved upset.

Now use mathsfactor - teaches them several ways including the complicated new ways we don't get. They now do well in maths - very well- and everyone is happier.

I teach secondary, so my opinions might be a bit biased. OP, I think you are confusing parental input and parental teaching.

Any school whish asks parents to actually teach is simply not up to scratch.

When talking about parental input our school means:

• ensuring DC get to school on time, sufficiently rested and fed and in correct uniform
• checking that DC spend an appropriate amount of time on homework each night (as detailed in their homework timetables)
• supporting school rewards and sanctions

I set homework to see how well students have understood classwork - can they do it without their mates to help them? I would certainly not want parents to help them complete work - how can I support your child if I don't know that they need help?

DazzleU I often think I could teach other children maths just not my own...

I like the new ways, a nice bit of chunking, 'do the bus stop', and so on. I've learnt them all...

Funnily enough DS does a separate online maths thing and that is always fine. Its whats set for homework that seems to be the problem. But his teacher says he is doing really well, so ...?.... we just sort of carry on hopefully.

OP I agree. This system at least in primary school asks a lot of parent for the academic stuff. I always wonder what happens to the children of parents who can't teach or who don't care.

It may need to vary from school to school but if we want education to reduce some of the inequalities of society knowing the basics should never depend on whether parents are willing or not. It may need more resources.

capsium - people are replying to the OP's first post, where she says: I am really starting to wonder about the received wisdom that parental input is crucial for a child's schooling success? Every politician and every teacher (especially in the state sector) repeats this mantra over and over

People are pointing out that that is not their experience. The vast majority of teachers would be very happy if dc came to school ready to learn.
If this is an issue at the OP's dcs' school then that might lead to different answers, but it's the claim that every teacher wants parents to teach their children whilst they faff around with craft and dressing up, that people are taking issue with.

Waiting us too! Now I tell the teacher "DD does not understand this maths homework and needs some support to grasp it" I write that in her book..I don't try to explain it as I am TERRIBLE at maths and year 6 stuff is way beyond me. I told the teacher that too!

Timely that's pretty much what DS put yesterday for one question! I'm not always sure if he is stuck or just CBA.

I am all for collaborative learning but now my child is in infant school I feel we get far too much homework and I think it is having a negative impact on my son. He gets spelling, mental maths, a piece of homework from a sheet such as making something which is sometimes a two week project or writing a newspaper article, etc. I can't stand the craft stuff. I find most of it pointless and it is usually me doing it! Therefore, we pick and choose what we do. If he can't do it himself with very little input from me and we don't already have the materials we don't do it.

We have to sign a book to say we've read four times per week with comments. He loves reading but the school books are uninspiring and if I forget to sign it he misses out on a house point. He then gets additional stuff such as Big Write, make something else depending on the topic they are doing. It is all too much. He has gone from a avid learner to now feeling demotivated. I feel fed up too and sometimes feel like it is my homework as most of it can't just be supervised. Sometimes I am teaching him a different way to how he is being taught in class so it just confuses him more. The balance needs to be right.

I am really starting to wonder about the received wisdom that parental input is crucial for a child's schooling success?

You have to ask this? I'm an educator at the other end of the spectrum (university) where we see the results of what the Sutton Trust researches: the social capital of parental support.

If you really think that your input is not needed for your child to thrive at school, and that teachers "overuse" parents, then I feel very sorry for your DC. And for their teachers.

YABU. Completely

Our school 'requires' volunteers to hear children read for example

Of course they bloody do. If a teacher had to listen to all 30 kids read every week (or even day as I've heard in some schools) then who exactly would be teaching the rest of the class?

Capsium schools are already ridiculously accountable. To the point that most of my time is spent filling in forms about how I am teaching one kid something, how another kid has other paper, how little Jim is on the lowest percentile for memory. All this for filling means my teaching has to suffer.

You are missing out the time cost from proper differentiation. In reality a lesson takes longer to plan than to teach if proper differentiation is used every time.

Sutton Trust research saying homework isn't much use for primary

PenelopePitstops ^^ agreed, and no wonder some very good teachers, experienced or new, lose the will to teach when they are mostly asked to file forms, multiply the red tape, or, as we have seen on various threads here, are expected by parents to send a email to the parents every time precious little Imogen sneezes or farts.

noble IMO hearing children read 1 to 1 is an extremely valuable teaching tool, it provides excellent opportunities, like no other, for a teacher to most accurately assess and extend a child's learning. A teacher also can pick up on any learning difficulties or areas where a child could be extended - they are the ' 'trained experts' in the field, so to speak. This should not be outsourced solely to (largely untrained) volunteers for this reason IMO. Some teachers do listen to each child read 1 to 1 every week. (mrz, on here, has said so on past threads). With only, largely untrained, volunteers, listening to children read and teachers not reading the reading diaries, no wonder many parents complain about unsuitable reading books being sent home.

As I suspected, you have confirmed, Penelope, lessons are not properly differentiated.

Is homework any use at KS3?

I hate it.

Capsium, no teacher would disagree with you. Not because they don't want to fully differentiate but because the upshot of full, 100% differentiation is that very child has 1 teacher who teaches them according to their individual needs and mores.

That is impossible. But currently teachers are being held to that sort of standard, whilst still being the only teacher in the room.

The frustration of that might be what you interpret as not caring or not expecting any achievement.

To be absolutely honest, your sweeping statements here:
Schools need to be more accountable for teaching the whole of the curriculum, especially when there are additional needs. All too often there is the attitude that because a child had needs that are even only slightly different to the norm that they cannot achieve. Often all that is needed is proper differentiation, reasonable adjustments that do not even cost very much. are incredibly insulting and just wrong.

Schools are accountable for the whole curriculum. That the curriculum is too large to fit in a school year, or even a calendar one, is not the teacher or school's fault!

The attitude regarding kids with SEN is not 'Ah well, they won't achieve anyway, fuck 'em.' That is a weird accusation to make. OK, I really went to town on the paraphrasing there, but I found your assertion offensive!

'Proper differentiation' what is that? What are the limits to your expectations, your 'reasonable adjustments'?

As for the cost... well, the in class adjustments may be cheap enough to do, but the administration, assessment, monitoring is not. There needs to be SENCO, properly trained, expert SENCO, as well as TAs and the teacher. Or any cheap adjustment the teacher makes will be based on guesswork!

I speak from personal experience, Nomama, my child has been effectively 'written off' by a few teachers in the past. Maybe not purposely but their attitudes were clear to me ('Bless him,' used as a phrase can be a good signifier) Just one example was not giving my child or the rest of their group the reading tests the rest of the class had. I suspect my child was put in this group simply because there was funding for a 1 to 1 from my child's Statement. Giving my child reading books that were the same level that they were given in reception, half way through KS2, although they were a different range and I had to look the grading systems up. Heartbreaking because my DC was a fluent reader on school entry. They were wrong. My child was tested later by a different teacher and was several years ahead in terms of reading age (tests included a comprehension element). This is just the tip of the iceberg...

^there were no contradictions, in terms of SEN, regarding the form of testing used either...

^there were no contradictions, in terms of SEN, regarding the form of testing used either...

In terms of cost my DC was fully funded through a Statement with a high enough level of funding to cover needs.

But that is not the experience of everyone, even your own second experience gives the lie to that!

Your previous posts were sweeping in their denigration of the teaching profession and I find that grossly unfair.

I would not disagree, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but it is not the teacher or school's fault. You must raise your gaze to find those who put the systems in place then refuse to do the necessary to make them work.

Basically, blame the organ grinder, not the monkey!

Well, in addition to dyslexia lessons, if my mum hadn't actually spent time teaching me certain things and then practicing with me, I would never have achieved academically what I have done.

Not everyone does ok with teacher input and an attitude that if you can't do the homework it was wrongly set...!

Teachers are part of the educations system and IME some are complicit in bad practices. Not all the responsibility can be diverted to the SLTs, LAs and the government...I have also experienced some fantastic teachers which really show the others up.

Do the stuff most a parents do with their kids.

It's a good mantra, as stated by a pp.

Thank you pp, sorry I'm so rude I didn't get your name.