to think that burlesque is not 'empowering'

[bauhausfan]

...but just women having been brainwashed into thinking that being sexy (ie fitting into that male stereotype of frilly undies, sexual availability, coyness etc) is their choice when actually it is just brain washing by the patriarchy. Just like breast implants -'I'm doing it for myself' - well, no, you're not. You're doing it so you can feel happier because you now fit society's pre-conceived idea of sexy/attractive.

I feel really depressed by the number of intelligent women I know who are buying into this bullshit. If I'm going to celebrate feminine power, I'd rather it was through women who have worked their way into the top echelons of society - not someone called Kitty or Dita waving their baps around. I feel despair - what happened to the 70s feminist dream?

lurker does have a point - its a bit like those hippy tree hugging liberals that love to live in my area who are all right on until someone disagrees with them then they become raging fascists.

I didn't say it was a similar degree, I said they were coming though now and that they were more than you'd think.
They may not label the act as burlesque either, even if it clearly is.

anyway 'burlesque' does not even mean stripping it is just a term that has been wrongly expropriated

If it makes them fell empowered than its empowering.
It may not be how you interpret empowerment, but that doesn't matter.

I've always thought it would be quite empowering to be an assassin.

I always thought it would be empowering to carry an AK47

I wish women would stop questioning other women's choices and deciding that just because THEY don't find it 'empowering' that no-one else should.

These days empowerment is something that's sold only to women and minority groups - ie, the people who will never gain power. I think it's a way of keeping people in their place. Yep, showing your undies is powerful - you keep doing that, dear, while we run the world.

It is a shame that we have moved on from empowerment meaning success in politics, business, society and now it means simply being so 'comfortable in your skin' that you're happy to take your clothes off.

I think the word 'empowering' is a bit problematic.
While I find burlesque empowering on a personal level, I do understand that it's not helping to get more women into parliament.
But then neither is worming my cat and I know which I'd rather be doing.
I can only tell you that it gives me and many other people an enormous amount of pleasure and has improved my life immeasurably. I would never criticise any woman who didn't want to dance around in her scanties. It's not for everyone, but it's for me, no question.

funny

I'm a very much live and let live kind of a person. If somebody felt happy, confident and dare I say it...empowered about what they are doing, I absolutely don't believe Its my place to tell them they are wrong. They are not harming themselves or anybody else.

Oh empire, I've got a cracking video of a male troupe but I'm not sure I can link it for copyright.
Let me see, if I can I will.

I agree I think perplexed. I think the issue here is that it would seem everything women do has to be for the good of womenkind otherwise it's not seen as important or valid. It's belittled by people, including people on here, if they're simply doing it for themselves.

What's harmful is that women are being told that it is empowering to strip. Lap dancing is also sold as being empowering. Why??

I don't think people are saying that everything an individual woman does has to further the cause of women as a whole, but some people are questioning whether burlesque dancing is actually empowering for women, which is a fair question I think.

In response to no-one in particular, my friend is a obese, and had serious body issues. She joined a burlesque social group and since then has become so much more confident, has lost weight, made friends and you can see the glow in her face. Such a simple thing to do, but it's improved her life massively.

Now personally I don't give a toss that that's not benefiting women as a whole, I'm happy it's benefited her.

That's right, telling women that their choices are really just mental programming from the patriarchy is definitely the feminist dream.

Greys sometimes I wish there were little "like" buttons in mumsnet.

I'm happy it's benefited her too, but WHY has it? That's the question