to think that burlesque is not 'empowering'

[bauhausfan]

...but just women having been brainwashed into thinking that being sexy (ie fitting into that male stereotype of frilly undies, sexual availability, coyness etc) is their choice when actually it is just brain washing by the patriarchy. Just like breast implants -'I'm doing it for myself' - well, no, you're not. You're doing it so you can feel happier because you now fit society's pre-conceived idea of sexy/attractive.

I feel really depressed by the number of intelligent women I know who are buying into this bullshit. If I'm going to celebrate feminine power, I'd rather it was through women who have worked their way into the top echelons of society - not someone called Kitty or Dita waving their baps around. I feel despair - what happened to the 70s feminist dream?

I don't mind anyone showing as much or as little of their bodies as they like, within reason and depending on context (massively against page 3, for example).
My shows are all 18+ and the majority of the audience are female. We incorporate horror, comedy, cheesecake, neo, singing, and all kinds of entertainment.
A lot of woman have told me it's made them feel so much better post birth and getting older.
You don't have to like it, of course you don't, but to say a bunch of woman kicking in time to Big Spender is responsible for FGM is perhaps a little extreme?

Surely it's about how the woman views herself.

As a woman I don't give a shit how men 'view' me. I'm strong enough and confident enough not to care.

I rather think burlesque dancers, strip teasers and probably a majority (not ALL, we know some are forced) of prostitutes are 'empowered' in this way too.

I don't think burlesque is really the same as stripping. Burlesque is generally a bunch of women who enjoy dressing up in retro lingerie dancing around for other women who think burlesque is cool. Stripping (the stuff in gentlemen's clubs) is acting all hot and sexy for drunk men and trying to hustle as many tips out of them as possible, often via lapdancing. I think Burlesque has more in common with cosplay than sex work.

The message is that if you want power as a woman, the thing to do is get naked for men. The fact that some of the women may be overweight makes no difference at all to that message.

I don't think most men find burlesque very sexy at all...aren't burlesque audiences more of a mixed crowd anyway?

I have also heard its basically stripping for fat women.

We would never insult a performer either, hugely frowned upon.
Unlike several PPs.

i dont think a 'majority' of prostitutes are empowered, I think they are making money for their pimps after a life of abuse.

I don't think burlesque has anything to do with prostitution so never mind.

yeh it kind of does though if you think about it

My Empire of dirt. - not for me no. But if that 's how others feel 'empowered'(which is total bollocks imho) then good luck to them.

I have all that too, empire.
I'm very lucky. And powerful.

"Stripping for fat goths"

Excellent. Where do I sign up?

exactly empireofdirt - why should a woman think that her only value is in how she looks?
it fucks me off

Isn't the 'empowered' reference directed towards getting comfortable in your own skin, owning your sexuality kind of stuff? Not, as seems to be assumed in the comments so far, to do with earning money.

yes but why should women have to strip off and wear ridic stuff to 'get comfortable in their own skin' ffs

I found that re-owning my post-birth body and finding that it could do such amazing things was closer to the truth than looking nice for men. As I say, the majority of my audiences are female.
There are a fair few men on the burlesque scene too.
More than you'd think.

Personally I wouldn't engage in it. I'm not comfortable enough with my body. However I know a woman who had terrible confidence issues who now runs workshops teaching people how to perform burlesque. Only a very small part is removing clothes and she can remove that bit if people aren't comfortable with it.

For her it's definitely been empowering. It's how she makes a living and she seems a lot more secure in herself now. No-one forces her to do this. She has made her own decision and is extremely happy with it. Which is the difference between empowerment and slavery (bit of a silly comparison if you ask me).

It is blatantly clear that a number of posters have never been to burlesque and are slagging it based on their imaginings rather that it's reality. From the performances I have been to I would say the guys there had been dragged along by their girlfriends. Any guy turning up for a bit of dick time would have been sorely disappointed. It struck me more as a glam dress up, retro vibing fantasy role playing type of thing. Obviously if you are totally against nudity or any celebration of physical appearance it won't be your thing, but attacking it as a turn on environment for men is wide of the mark.
In fact a lot of the criticisms are reminding me of people who get into a moral outrage about a book they have never read.

yes but why should women have to strip off and wear ridic stuff to 'get comfortable in their own skin' ffs

maybe because it's where we are at at the moment, having all grown up with glossy magazine pictures of women with unnaturally slim and unpuckered bodies.

Seems like it's a good way to begin ringing the changes - all of which will be passed on to daughters who will be given more permission than we have been to be comfortable in their own bodies.