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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

608 replies

drudgetrudy · 27/11/2014 23:08

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.Angry

OP posts:
BikketBikketBikket · 30/11/2014 21:26

Gosh, but this thread has been informative. I'm another over-65 who is definitely NOT an 'old biddy' - or an 'old' anything...... Angry
Some of the views on here have annoyed me (yes, I'm looking at you MNHQ) but I'm heartened by the great support from so many posters, and by the strength of feeling expressed.
Looking forward to seeing less and less of the derogatory language that has marred so many threads lately (there's another driving one in full flow at the moment Angry )

Moniker1 · 30/11/2014 22:07

Could we swap 'the elderly' and 'the old' for 'older people', please?!

Yes, older people sounds better but does it refer to over the 40 year stretch of 60 - 100+ , or even 50 to 100+, and if it does does young people refer to 40 to baby stage ie also over 40 years.

GarlicGiftsAndGlitter · 30/11/2014 22:17

Fine, Moniker - old people, elderly people or even disabled people, since impaired mobility & cognitive ability, etc, are disabilities rather than synonymous with 'old'. It's just not good to say 'the elderly' any more than 'the disabled' or 'the blacks'. It's de-personalising.

Moniker1 · 30/11/2014 22:17

What about 50 - 70 mature
70 - 100 older people
100+ elderly
110+ aged

Samcro · 30/11/2014 22:18

nah over 50
not mature at all.

BIWI · 30/11/2014 22:38

Moniker - why on earth do you want to have to define people by their age?! That's the whole point of this thread!

Devora · 30/11/2014 22:40

This thread reminds me of that old New Yorker cartoon in which a map of the world is foreshortened behind a massive looming Manhattan - everything else tiny and compressed in the background.

When I was young the world stretching up to the age of 40 looked vast and plentiful - everything after it was foreshortened into one grey lump of oldness, in which I would be a different person, less beautiful, loveable, clever and funny, with nothing much to look forward to except for facial hair and eventually death.

Now I'm 50, it's like going over the mountaintop and seeing how much there is on the other side. I have a mother and a grandmother who both still work for a living (the women work for ever in my family; the men often fail to start). I have young children and a fascinating job. There's a LOT I like about being middle-aged (not least the loss of self-consciousness, and the 'loss' of intrusive and unwanted sexual attention). I would give away the arthritis in a heartbeat, but generally this time of life has lots to recommend it. i feel calmer, more confident, and more capable than ever before in my life.

So the loss of social and professional status is galling, to see the least. I always get great performance reports at work, but I suspect I won't be promoted much further, if any further. EVery day I see the difference between how older women and older men are treated at work - the gap is very much wider than between younger women and younger men. Turning 50 was an eye-opener: I was determined to role model how I expected other people to treat it - I didn't hide it, or joke about it, or show any distress about it. But everyone else did - I overheard a whispered debate among my colleagues about whether it would be appropriate to get a card with '50' on it, or whether I'd be upset.

This thread has been very interesting, and I'm grateful to Justine for responding to it. I hope we can go on exploring what it means to become an older woman; I think we could all benefit from it.

Mehitabel6 · 30/11/2014 22:42

I still had a child at primary school when I was 50yrs old- I wasn't an oddity.

Devora · 30/11/2014 23:00

Mehita, my youngest STARTED primary school when i was (am) 50 Grin

Mintyy · 30/11/2014 23:09

Am 52 with a son at primary Smile.

Hakluyt · 30/11/2014 23:13

Mintyy- you've already shown yourself to be beyond the pail!Grin Or do I mean pale......yes I probably do. Memory going, you know.........

GarlicGiftsAndGlitter · 30/11/2014 23:21

Every day I see the difference between how older women and older men are treated at work - the gap is very much wider than between younger women and younger men.

Devora, I know you've alluded to this in a couple of posts lately. I would love you to explore it a bit more if/when you feel like it. Ageism, to me, is a huge issue and many times harsher for women than men. Whilst I realise it's currently one of those things that just is, so each of us has to find workarounds as best we can, I feel it's dreadfully under-acknowledged and barely discussed.

Discussion is at least a tiny step forward, and I'm sure mutual support will be welcomed.

goingmadinthecountry · 30/11/2014 23:29

I have a 21yo and a dd at primary and am nearly 51. Don't think I'm the oldest at the primary school. Definitely don't act it. I do object to being classified as mature. Mature imo is past it.

ilovesooty · 30/11/2014 23:30

Devora what an inspiring post.

Sarine1 · 30/11/2014 23:55

Returns VERY late in the day to this fascinating thread. Thank you Justine and thank you all for such interesting insights.
It's a pleasure to read Smile

Moniker1 · 01/12/2014 00:04

Moniker - why on earth do you want to have to define people by their age?! That's the whole point of this thread!

True, I think it was the common all encompassing reference to the elderly I was trying to alter with more meaningful descriptions.

Can we actually remove the words old people, elderly, pensioners from everyday vocabulary without confusion? Maybe we can.

SconeRhymesWithGone · 01/12/2014 01:14

I don't like elderly as in "the elderly" because like "the disabled" it leaves out the person. But I think we need to be careful with being afraid of words like old and mature. My grandmother lived to be 99; my mother is 92; my dad died two years ago at 93. Their great age is to be admired and respected. There is nothing wrong in being old; we've let society give it a negative connotation. You don't often hear people complain about being called young. Think about the difference in "young woman" and "old woman." I think if we can reclaim "old" we truly will gone a long way toward defeating ageism. But we are a long way from that.

echt · 01/12/2014 06:47

Good points scone about reclaiming the "old". They tend to say "elders" in Australia.

I'd thought of "crone" which, like "spinster" and "widow" applied equally to men. As did "quean" now I think of it.

Reclaim your inner crone.

Hakluyt · 01/12/2014 06:54

"I'd thought of "crone" which, like "spinster" and "widow" applied equally to men"

Really? Prepared to be proved wrong- but are you sure?

And why not just "person"? Or "woman" or "man"?

Floisme · 01/12/2014 07:23

There is nothing wrong in being old
I agree with scone and I don't think we should shy away from using the word. Being treated as less than human because you're old - that's the problem. Finding a more 'acceptable' term isn't going change that.

Mehitabel6 · 01/12/2014 07:49

It is not being old- it is being written off because you are old that irks -and thinking that you can't keep up to date.
Personally I love it. I read the teaching thread and love the fact I am out of it. I am off on one of my volunteering days today- working with fun people ( of all ages ) and talking about one of my passions all day!

DidoTheDodo · 01/12/2014 09:12

I'm with Hakluyt on this. Why not just "woman" unless her age is relevant (and I am not sure I can think of too many examples where it is relevant.) People just shouldn't be pigeonholed by age.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 01/12/2014 09:16

Urghh I hate the word spinster, when dh and I were just about to get married we were waiting to go in and read our names on the notice board (is it bands?) I was described as DameD spinster and dh as bachelor- I was outraged, it's such a horrible word.

Floisme · 01/12/2014 10:15

I always took a kind of pride in being a spinster - in fact I was a bit sad to give it up Grin

Agree that 'old' is often used when it's irrelevant or as an under-the-radar-slur and that this should be challenged. But I don't think there's anything wrong with the word itself.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 01/12/2014 10:19

I didn't give everything up, I am a Ms and I kept my surname Wink