To be shocked at the ageism on here tonight

[drudgetrudy]

AIBU to be shocked at the terms used to refer to older people tonight.
We've had "old duffers", "old biddies" "old dears with nothing better to do" and this isn't a TAAT-its been on more than one thread.

If any other group were referred to in generalised and negative terms like this people would be going nuts.
People are people and come in many varieties over all age ranges.
Seriously pissed off tonight.

Well I'm voting for 'offensive, per se'

So am I.

Agree with arsenicsoup. Old biddy is a horrible phrase that has no part in modern conversation and especially associated with a website purporting to be very female-friendly.

an old biddy as defined in the OED is "a woman, especially an elderly one, regarded as annoying or interfering".

This is the defense of using the term. Am I missing something here?

@DidoTheDodo

"Usage and intention" ...if it applies to a racist or sexist phrase would you let it stand? If not, then please don't let an ageist one remain for the sake of 'discussion'.

But it's rarely that simple - there are, for sure certain, words and phrases that we would always delete but lots in a grey area where what swings it, is intention. Moron and moronic is an example.

Grey area...ooh ageist

Collins dictionary says this;

biddy2 (?b?d? Pronunciation for biddy2 )
Definitions
noun
(plural) -dies

(informal, offensive) a woman, esp an old gossipy or interfering one

So they seem to think age is implied by 'biddy' alone.

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/biddy

I'm trying to think of the closest male equivalent, but of course there isn't a close one because derogatory terms about women are so tied up with centuries of cultural sexism and disdain.

Maybe 'old codger' is close-ish?

@SconeRhymesWithGone

an old biddy as defined in the OED is "a woman, especially an elderly one, regarded as annoying or interfering".

This is the defense of using the term. Am I missing something here?

Yes - the next sentence: "This was an entirely apposite use for the ensuing chapter, which was all about advising new parents - who might be slightly wraught/sensitive/defensive - not to take themselves too seriously and get annoyed - rather than saying just blank annoying, old people iyswim."

The point of the chapter being they are regarded as annoying but not necessarily rightly.

I'm astonished the term is still being defended.

Oh sorry- missed that 'elderley' was also in the Oxford definition Justine is using. A consensus then.

elderly^

There are other words in the OED that if were used nowadays are racist even if the OED describes what the word means. We certainly would not be allowed to use them on here.

Derogatory comments about age are just as bad.

Justine, I really do understand that there are many words and phrases that aren't as clear cut when it comes to offensive or not, but surely one that singles out a group of people in an unpleasant and demeaning way, purely because of a characteristic over which they have no control, ie age, is indefensible.
Id like to think that MN has the potential to reflect a better, fairer society than say, the Daily Mail!

Old biddy is a term for an interfering older person^?

So what is the younger equivalent?

How would a younger person, who's of the interefering persuasion be described? I bet there isn't one.
And there's also no equivalent for an interefersing old man.

Derogatory comments about age are just as bad

I agree. This all comes over as "some of the protected characteristics are more worthy of respect than others".

@Pollywallywinkles

There are other words in the OED that if were used nowadays are racist even if the OED describes what the word means. We certainly would not be allowed to use them on here.

Derogatory comments about age are just as bad.

I agree they are. I guess the debate is about whether "old biddy" is always a derogatory comment about age, or whether it can just be a descriptive term about an individual.

Normally they'd be marked as offensive/perjorative/derogatory though Polly, as in the Collins definition I quoted above (informal, offensive). I wonder whether the OED does mark 'biddy' as such? (Some teenager or other has run off with my copy.)

'Elderly' has long been considered a pretty derogatory term in itself. It's 'older people'.

'Elderly' has long been considered a pretty derogatory term in itself. It's 'older people'

The Elderly is wrong, it's older people,
the same with saying The Disabled is wrong - it's people with disabilities.

"Old biddy" is sexist and ageist, a good example of the intersection of sexism and ageism.

I'm pleased that mumsnet are going to be more aware of ageism in their moderating. However slightly perplexed by the defense of a term both ageist and misogynistic.
I have taken a trip to gransnet to look at the campaign against everyday ageism and I have pointed out the issues we are having on mumsnet.
I am pleased that this isn't turning into an inter-generational thing and some younger people have noticed the dismissive attitudes.

Justine-ask yourself honestly if you would like to be called an old biddy, would you find it "descriptive" or be a bit pissed off.
Personally I'd be pissed off-especially if I hadn't even spoken and it was a pre-judgement (prejudice).
Old duffer and old dear-even worse!

"Old biddy" is sexist and ageist, a good example of the intersection of sexism and ageism

Defending the term sends a very negative message imo. I'm more than disappointed - I'm very angry.

PS "fat Asian woman on the bus" could be said to be descriptive-would you use it as the title of a chapter in a book.
I'm not entirely convinced you are "getting" it.

I keep deleting a post in which I point out that 'traditionally regarded' as having some unpleasant characteristic is no excuse whatsoever for using a phrase. There are a few choice ones on the tip of my fingers, all related to ethnic stereotypes.

I don't post this because they're ten times more offensive than the examples I wrote upthread. Stereotyping older people in an unpleasant light is equally harmful. The fact that lots of people still unthinkingly do it doesn't make it any better.

I'm angry, too. Angry enough to consider leaving MN. I am going to sleep on it, though, and see how I feel about it tomorrow. But as a feminist who works on issues involving older women, this just may not be a good place for me to be.