Hi all,
Sorry for my delayed appearance - the community team raised the flag re MN Book last night, and that's squarely my responsibility so said I"d come on, but been chasing around after kids all day, so took longer than I'd hoped.
I agree with those who've said that calling someone "old" per se shouldn't be a problem but using "old" or variation of it as a shorthand for disparaging is something we ought to discourage.
Which brings us to the old biddies reference in the Mumsnet book....
Now, I know that some you will simply think using the words "old biddy" is offensive, per se. I do see where you are coming from and am happy to be persuaded/have that debate but I would say this, an old biddy as defined in the OED is "a woman, especially an elderly one, regarded as annoying or interfering". This was an entirely apposite use for the ensuing chapter, which was all about advising new parents - who might be slightly wraught/sensitive/defensive - not to take themselves too seriously and get annoyed - rather than saying just blank annoying, old people iyswim. It's a subtle difference but it's important.
Do the read the chapter if you haven't, I think it's actually very warm about older people and tries hard to offer a balanced perspective. Eg this
“Your baby is too hot.”
“Your baby needs a hat.”
“Your baby has lost a sock.”
“And someone says
"Your baby is cold"
And these over-sensitive mums all go BANANAS.
I often see over heated babies and feel sorry for them.”
(SuSylvester)
And the chapter ends with this, I think, touching quote from MN talkboards:
“The best 'interference' we experienced was when my daughter was 2 days old. We'd walked to the co-op but the pram was too big to get into the ridiculously small shop so I went in and left my husband with the pram.
An elderly lady came up and cooed at my daughter. Two minutes later the woman had tapped my husband on the shoulder and shoved a tenner into his hand saying 'that's for the baby mind, don't go spending it on beer'. Still makes me smile to this day (actually making me cry a little bit now, fecking pregnancy hormones).”
(Bumperlicious)
I do agree you that the issue generally of casual ageism is really important and indeed one that is reguarly discussed on Gransnet, where they have an everyday ageism forum and are planning a campaign. (#everydayageism).
Judging from comments here, it's something we should think a bit more about at Mumsnet too - both in terms of publicly supporting that campaign and calling folks out on it on the Mumsnet boards more/ encouraging people to report it, which is really how we're going to change things.
We were more than happy to delete the "old people driving thread the other day", as it was clearly unpleasant but I'd be wary of censoring every reference to an old biddy because I do think the usage/intention is important and sometimes it's better to have a discussion, as here, which has and will certainly made us think carefully about this issue and have a bit of an audit of ourselves and how we are moderating.
Thanks everyone who's contributed thoughts, very happy to hear more/continue the discussion but just rushing off to dinner now.