AIBU to think it is REALLY daft to get into debt buying xmas presents etc.

[IceBeing]

Do people really go into debt over christmas and if so, why?

wishtoremain
People getting into debt - if you are so struggling that you can't buy anything at all without borrowing - how will you pay the money back ?

So
In August you had a house and job and kids in state school with trips booked
THEN
Your employer goes bust and cashflow goes from hero to zero in a matter of weeks
do you stop the kids activities
do you make everybody go vegetarian
do you sell the car and risk not being able to get another job
house move is not an option due to negative equity

MN posters and politicians seem to live in the same private school uber rich bubble

I don't live in a bubble at all. I have no children, certainly didn't go to private school and can't afford to buy a house or flat of my own either.

I may not have worded the post well. The gist is people saying they would get into debt - are you saying this as in you would to spread the cost a little over the year or are you saying you'd do it just so as you can do Christmas but then would struggle to pay it back ?

I can absolutely understand the former I'm still conflicted about the latter.

you can get a 3 year old anything. we got everything from charity shops at that age (tight and a bit skint) as its not like they notice
i am, tbh, mad keen on all things christmassy

I definitely think there is far too much commercialism now and I agree there is too much advertising aimed at children. I particularly hate aggressive branding of character stuff and have virtually stopped buying anything character related (we first did this last Xmas - I worried the DCs would notice... they didn't).

There's a lot of pressure to have the latest whatever (although it's often started by parents IME - I know people who look for the "this year's top ten must have toys" lists and then seek out the items, even when their child hasn't actually shown any interest in them - this includes stuff like the JL Bear and Hare last year). Similarly people who get tablets etc because everyone else seems to be, rather than the DC being desperate for one. I think that's one thing I hate about adverts - they try to make us all the same and tell children they should all like the same stuff. The longer I can keep my DCs away from that, the better, but I know it can't last forever! It's like women's gifts - I've lost count of the number of times DH has been laughed at by various colleagues etc when he's been getting my birthday/Xmas etc gifts - he's been repeatedly told he should () be getting me expensive perfume and handbags... when actually what I love is what he spends ages finding for me - quirky games, retro DVDs etc.

So yes I hate the commercialism, I think that's what makes people feel like they have to rack up hundreds of impossible debt to have the latest suchandsuch, but it's miles away from people having to put even £50 on a credit card just to be able to buy a few modest presents. Totally different issue IMO.

My childhood was full of having my Xmas presents returned on Boxing Day as my single parent realised they had overspent. Or my presents just disappearing after a few weeks.

I don't want my children to ever feel like that. They have less, but what they do have I will never take back off them.

Wait, wait... For those who are getting into debt over Christmas raises hand I daresay none of you are in the position to give random pressies to your kids throughout the year, so naturally you want to make Christmas a bit special. And for those who sniff haughtily and maintain you wouldn't get into debt for your kids, well either you are in the possession of the fabled Money Trees, or don't have kids. I shudder to think of the Christmas parents who don't fall into either of these categories because their financial status matters more to them than seeing a priceless gleeful smile on Christmas morning.

very easy to judge when you have the choice to give less or more when it is to give a small thing or nothing much harder choice. One I am grateful I have never had to make

Clone shops in clone cities selling the same items designed to make us all look the same and do the same thing by encouraging everyone to buy the same stuff so we don't upset the children or look tight

I have to say all year round and start tucking bits away from September onwards. My 'club' pays out in November and I get my sons some nice clothes and other bits.
Life is bloody hard for me and I enjoy the whole festive period and being able to say - yes we can to
Cinema or food out or giving them some cash.
It makes the anxiety of the rest of the year worthwhile. I don't do it specifically because it's Christmas just because that's when I have a bit extra.

RaisingMen your post Sun 23-Nov-14 15:29:57

My point is that if you grow up in poverty, having that one splurge at Christmas does NOTHING to help a child feel "normal". You're far more likely to feel "normal" if you have clean clothes to wear, in a fair state of repair, relatively decent pens and pencils to take to school, a decent school bag, and the chance to go on all the school trips and not have to decline on the grounds of poverty. There is nothing worse than having to make excuses not to go on a school trip when the real reason is that you can't afford to go. You feel like you're alone with it when nobody around seems to care that you can't afford the things others take for granted.

There is a very big difference between getting into debt so your child can have a few little gifts to open on Christmas morning and getting into debt to buy all of the latest consoles/smart phones etc. Getting into debt to give your child the basics of a wonderful Christmas when you live hand to mouth all year round I can understand. Getting into debt to keep up with the Joneses I cannot.

Duchesse I genuinely feel for anyone who has to make decisions like that, how do you chose? One parent might chose to forego Christmas and have the school trip or clothes instead. I'm not judging either way, but it's a sad fact that many, many people get into debt for Christmas and that would suggest that giving their child a 'normal ' Christmas is a priority to some.

duchese it might help the child feel more normal just once in the year. I didn't go on school trips due to poverty. I didn't have decent clothes and hated mufti days as I had nothing to wear. I didn't have deodorant and sometimes smelled sweaty. There was lots of things I didn't have. Xmas was just another stressful time where my families poverty was highlighted. I hated going back to school in January to have people asking what I got for Xmas. Having nice presents wouldn't have made the rest of the year any nicer but it would have been bloody nice that one time of the year and getting clothes and smellies for Xmas would have helped me feel more normal for quite a few months. It would have been nice going to school in January and being able to say that I got some nice clothes and toiletries for Xmas and secretly knowing that those items would help me for several months.

How odd, I keep getting noted off this thread,it just keeps closing on me, only this thread,others are ok

So for the massively out of touch - can someone tell me what my DD is supposed to 'need' this xmas? How much am I supposed to spend? what is the minimum number of presents under the tree that will not cause people to think I am neglecting her?

At this age I sourced my DD's presents mostly second hand, gorgeous Russian doll set from local xmas fair, £2, puzzles, jig saws, a little hand bag, stuff like that. It was all from charity shops and the like and was all really lovely and cheap. apart from the russian dolls, most of it has since been given back to charity shops.

I don't think such small children need anything over and above presents to open, whatever the cost, ie negligible it doesn't matter, excitement, build up and atmosphere, and wonder....has he been, leaving stocking out, smell of oranges in the air, twinkling lights....reading the night before christmas, asking if you can hear sleighbells, carols....and feeling warm, cosy and loved and excited.

I think there's a huge difference between only getting your DC a few things because you want to rather then you need to. A parent who's on the breadline will feel terrible. The shops and the media encourage people to spend, and the guilt associated with this can be difficult. When a parent chooses this they don't have the guilt.

There is a very big difference between getting into debt so your child can have a few little gifts to open on Christmas morning and getting into debt to buy all of the latest consoles/smart phones etc

I went to private school and was one of the least well off families there.
I had some friends whose families were uber materialistic and very 80's, power dressing, power cars and the like HUGE shoulder pads very Ab Fab Edina ish in fact.

Honestly, I don't know how it happened but from a young age I just really appreciated where I lived, and my parents, they were odd and quirky and I knew they loved me, and I never envied anyone else or felt bad to be the one who didn't go skiing, or have latest outfits, I was just happy with what I had. My siblings are very envious and felt left out, but for some reason, I was not burdned with those thought.

I am amazed by MN Christmas threads. Christmas can easily be about God, church, carols, love, singing and all the rest which does not cost a penny. The poorer you are on MN the more likely to spend money you don't have on Christmas and the more you seem to think children "need" to have a good Christmas. It probably is partly the reason those families end up with not much money as they are spending what they don't have. My children don't get presents at all at present (as they just want money) and that does not make Christmas any the worse or less happy or less traditional. In fact some religions don't do Christmas at all. www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/why-some-christians-dont-celebrate-christmas/
Babies need nothing. Toddlers like packaging and second hand stuff.

I don't understand it either. Growing up we were poor enough that we just about had enough for the bills each month, my mum budgeted to the penny (it was just me and her). She made christmas presents or went without something herself to buy me something little. We still had a brilliant Christmas. I'd have felt awful if I'd thought she was getting into debt to buy me stuff, as I knew things were tough for her.
But our culture's changed a bit since then, credit is so available and debt so normal. It makes me a bit sad that christmas is so much about 'stuff' these days.

The shops are partly to blame for that, DIY. The marketing to buy tat is aggressive and there's no escape from it.

you might like this article
Donâ??t prick the Christmas spending bubble â?? itâ??s keeping capitalism alive

gu.com/p/43fcm

A couple of hundred max I can understand. My friend is 1.5k in debt so far after Xmas shopping for her 2 kids under 5. Crazy

He's written that article to promote his book, sanfairy. Sort of proves my point about aggressive marketing and being unable to escape from it

That's nuts, Purple

Greengrow it's a bit of a generalisation to say 'the poorer you are on mumsnet the more you spend when you can't afford it and think your children 'need' things'. Is it just the well off that think their children don't 'need' things then?

Also you say your children don't get presents but yet you give them money. Isn't that one and the same? You are just handing over cold hard cash for their wants.

DIY I can understand your point about not wanting your mum to get into debt. My situation of poverty was a little different because my mum could always afford a new Xmas dress and night out for herself during the festive period. She could also afford lots of bottles of booze. I did resent not having many presents at Xmas and missing out on things during the year like school trips and toiletries because my mum could have afforded them if she had put her children first.
People's histories have a huge affect on their present thinking.