to ask people not to touch toddlers not related to them?

[evalyn]

Out yesterday with DGC. DGC walking, within grabbing distance, but not holding hands. Middle aged woman, 'Aah, gorgeous!', gently ruffles DGC's hair, smiles broadly at me. DGC shrinks away. I say to this woman, 'Yes, but you shouldn't touch, please.' Woman sniffs, nose in air, walks off in huff.

AIBU to think that even 2-year-olds have the right not to be touched at all, however affectionately, by strangers? And to be really annoyed that this woman thinks she has the right to ruffle my DGC's hair like that?

Evalyn, will you explain why, in your opinion, someone would have to be related to a child in order to be allowed to touch him or her?

Took a while but I've just read through the thread

I have a 14 month old DD2, we are stopped a lot to be told how beautiful and chatty she is. She has had her hair ruffled, cheeks stroked and even spoke too.
and not just by relatives either!
Usually older women. My DD is shy and just stares at them, whoever is making a fuss of her usually gets a smile out of her and it's lovely.
It restores my faith in people. Its nice to know that there are happy, sweet people out there and not everyone is grumpy and miserable.

I want my DDs to know that too.

I'm not too sure about the whole related thing either.
Most abuse happens within the family.

So OP is barking up the wrong tree.

As entertaining as the whole brass band/cenotaph story was, I'm still not convinced that a nice lady ruffling a cute childs hair warrants quite so much hand wringing.

The OED quote was a nice touch though, I'll give you that.

How personally challenging it seems to be for some of you to have well-entrenched prejudices questioned. Strange reactions here. Oh well.

Redhead11, yes I think my DGC are remarkable. But don't most if not all GP think that? 'Sing a recognisable tune', though; yes, this particular DGC can certainly do that. And recognise ones she knows by the tune; we play a game sometimes where I whistle the tune and she tells me what the song is -- she's more-or-less always right (and I'm not a great whistler). It's true she does think 'Tipperary' is called 'Pack Up Your Troubles', I guess because the two are often sung together. They (roughly) harmonise, you know. Not that DGD can harmonise. (At 2, hardly likely!) Ime child development is so variable. I'd bet many children can recognise tunes and sing songs at age 2. I don't think my DGC are unique, either in that or in not liking to be touched by strangers.

Mehitable, yes indeed, "if you have learnt anything from this it should be to try a different approach next time". Perhaps, 'I'm sorry, she doesn't like to be touched,' or something similar. It does happen now and then; I'll try something like that now I know what many of you think -- it could be one of you lot, after all, touching up my DGC. I really hadn't realised how things were in this regard. (Which was my reason for posting.) I'm surprised. But sure, I've learned something.

Another thing I've learned here is how dreadfully most of you go about dealing with views that challenge your own in any way. Dogmatic isn't in it. Nor is BU, if I'm honest. I do find that a bit sad.

Yes, I shouldn't quote OED on threads like this, you're right whoever said that. (And all who thought it.) Just rising to bait I shouldn't have. OK. Fair cop. But you do all know you can access OED online? Hope so; it's a great British resource.

Still enjoying yourself, Evalyn? Good. I hope the child's parents pull you up good and proper and restrict their child's exposure to more of your very rude and unsocial behaviour.

You refer to posters here as dogmatic; they're also pretty much united and not cursed with needing to make patronising and long-winded, repetitive 'explanations'.

You really hurt that woman you refer to in your OP, you know. Did that ever register with you in your self-righteous indignation?

'could be one of you lot, after all, touching up my DGC.'

I think 'touching' would be more appropriate here than 'touching up'. 'Touching up' implies, to me at least, some kind of sexual intent.

Evalyn, I would never touch a child that wasn't my own or one that I already knew well and also knew would be OK with a hair ruffle or a cheek stroke. Given that, I still don't think you were right to reprimand the woman who ruffled your granddaughter's hair. That was so unkind. I also don't understand why only people who are actually related to a child should be permitted to touch.

Yes, why did you type "touching up" which has such different, and more sinister, connotations than "touching"?

You were just really, really rude to the poor woman, who was just doing a nice thing - saying how gorgeous your DGC is. (When actually she's almost certainly pretty average). Your DGC won't remember the interaction and wouldn't have remembered it if you'd just smiled and said, yes, I think she's gorgeous too. But the poor woman is probably still going hot and cold with embarrassment and anger at your rude, rude, reaction to a very normal human impulse - to give a little affection and admiration to a small child.

It doesn't matter how much you go on, you were rude and unpleasant, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I think OP meant to write 'touching up', rather than 'touching'. So much more emotive and designed to shock and lend weight to her complaint. Nobody unwittingly uses such terms when referring to children, or I don't believe they do.

Ok, now you just sound bonkers.

What a dark and troubled mind the OP must inhabit if 'touching up' was used intentionally. Poor DGC.

Well, that was unpleasant reading. It could be any of us "touching up" the child? Since does an brief contact with a child's hair equate to touching up, especially from a poster who enjoys quoting the OED? There was nothing sexual in the contact which is what the use of the phrase "touching up" implies.

And like Redhead I bet the kid can't say Tipperary. She might know the tune but that ain't the same as singing the words properly, even to the most deluded and incredibly over protective grandparent.

One day you might need that stranger to touch your DGC. I was in a shopping centre last week and saw a 2-3 yr old wander out of a shop and into the main part of the centre. I stopped her as there was no adult seemingly in charge of her.

After about a minute a women walked out of the shop gave me a dirty look and claimed her DC back.

Maybe next time we should all just leave other people's children well alone......

It takes a village to raise a child, don't bite the hand that could help you.

I've been roundly abused on this thread. It's only virtual abuse I know, but still it's a bit not nice. (For instance, 'A dark and troubled mind' - would you say that to someone's face, I wonder, squoosh? Or is the internet's anonymity a necessary cover?)

I wonder why you're all (or almost all - thanks for the support, those few who offered some) so afraid of reasoned argument that you resort to such abuse. Anybody suggest why this happens? Why are so many people posting on AIBU so averse to being reasonable in their responses?

Just asking.

I certainly would evalyn if I thought the person had purposely used the phrase 'touching up' in a similar context.

Why did you use choose that term?

Just asking.

A lot of people have been extremely reasonable in their responses OP. You however have not. Your argument isn't well-reasoned, and your use of the phrase 'touching up' was designed to goad other posters. No one who chooses to post in the way you do would make such a mistake. The world you inhabit is a sad and unpleasant one.

I suspect it will be a cold day in hell before the OP justifies that unpleasant phrase.

For once, I agree that you have not been 'abused' op, you have been told ywbu. I have seen posters being torn to shreds for alot less. You were rude to someone in public, thats it.

I think I love you a little bit op.
A substantial number of people posting that you are unreasonable and rude are therefore entrenched and unreasonable and abusive, incapable of a reasoned argument.

It is simply not possible that a huge swathe of people think you were unreasonable and rude because you were actually just unreasonable and rude, is it. Because you are just delightful.

Looking forward to reading a post where OP actually uses some reasoned argument because she's singularly failed to do that thus far. All she has done is attempt to justify an irrational prejudice and teaching anti social behaviours.

You could say why do people start a thread on AIBU if they are absolutely certain they are not and nothing will change their mind. I think you are the one that doesn't like having your views challenged.

Have it your own way evalyn a perfectly nice, normal,friendly woman stopped to chat to you and ruffled your granddaughter's hair. You were therefore fully justified to be sharp and rude to her. (Is that what you wanted to hear?)

It does annoy me that people constantly post here asking AIBU but if they don't like the answer they then insist everyone is wrong.

No one made you post here OP, you asked for opinion and people have given theirs.