To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

I loved BF my babies- I didn't FF at all lying - what is"gooey and inappropriate" about it ????
Breast feeding was an overwhelming experience for me - that I still think about and smile about 16 years later.

Sure I'm proud of breastfeeding. I'm proud of all kinds of things that I've done that were difficult for me. Why would I not be?

There's nothing wrong with being proud of breastfeeding. But on threads where women say they are proud of not having an epidural, or proud of not having a cesearean birth, they're ridiculed and told that it's nothing to be proud of. I'm proud of giving birth via induction without epidural. What's wrong with that?

It's fine to be proud....mums should just look at their wonderful babies and be proud of however they were fed....

I'm incredibly proud of my birth with total medical intervention ....by choice....

I'm proud of my ff experiences from birth....

I never ever have experienced negativity re ff in Rl. I see the odd poster on MN a little to the contrary but we all make our choices and as parents make our decisions.

I think support is the key here....I support totally women's choices re bf and I would hope they would support mine.

But alpaca that's great! I have tried bf 3 times. With one I made it to 9 months. They were sodding miserable months.

I'd say bf was the worst thing about my three experiences of babyhood. Different stroke for different folks.

I once saw an excellent cartoon about BF/FF'ing that I wish I could find again because it was so good. I'll try to describe it.

First picture: a cafe, a baby screaming and a poor stressed mother holding it. A couple at the next table tutting and saying "for goodness sake can't she keep that baby quiet. Why doesn't she just feed it?"

Second picture: same cafe, same baby and mum but this time she's feeding the baby from a bottle. Same couple at the next table saying "what a sweet baby....but breast is best!"

Third picture: same cafe, same baby and mum but this time she's breast feeding the baby. Same couple at the next table saying "Really, can't she do that in private?!"

There'll always be idiots.

I'm proud I have bf my dd for 2.9 years . She has serious allergies and so I've had to cut loads of foods out of my diet . I'm proud of that .
I'm as proud of my choice to ff my first dd . I made the right decision at the time . She's now a happy healthy 15 year old.

I'm so fucking proud of my parenting- even the screaming banshee bits . I try my best and that's all we can ever do .

I must say I didn't feel particularly proud of bf ;poss defensive? it just saved a pile of work I felt ,but back then you could just take the baby into the bed and go back to sleep(in fact they put cotsides on the beds in the mat unit),wheras now you'd get accused of putting your child at risk by that;tho to me the thought of being really really tired and having to sit in a chair with a baby is an at risk situation ,but that's 'expert modern ideas' for you I suppose

Jazzysyncopation, the growth charts are not based on FF babies at all, they are based on breastfed babies and have been for several years (all the info on them is here).

On the topic of people being proud of not having a c-section, it is a bit galling for those of us who had to have an EMCS. It implies that if we had tried harder or done something different that we could have avoided it. It's potentially the same with having an epidural - I didn't have one for the first 15 hours of contractions, and very reluctantly agreed to one (when I'd stated on my birth "plan" that I didn't want one) when the midwife wanted to turn up the hormone drip to max to see if that could get things going. Turns out it was the right thing to do as when it became apparent that a c section was necessary it was quicker to do as the epidural was already sited.

I wouldn't describe myself as proud, just relieved that I survived the whole birth experience. I am proud of my wonderful DS though!

I think feeling proud of yourself is ok (comparing feeling Proud of BF with feeling proud of being an Olympian is a bit mmmmm tbh - )

TBH we have so much to worry about in this world - and as parents we have so many things to worry about.
The real reason feeding is emotive OP is because everyone feels they have to defend what they are doing - BF or FF mums. I genuinely don't think it matters - both are equally good as far as I am concerned (in our developed, sanitised country) - now if you want to get me started on dummies that is a different matter .......

Who compared BF with being an Olympian ?
There is no comparison imho- my DH could possibly have been a Olympian but there was no chance he could ever BF
Tongue in cheek

Not sure who it was alpaca but it was up thread -

Was it....Fatima Whitbreast

Hahahahahahah -

alpaca... I didn't mean to imply that you'd FF'd, I realise that you'd BF'd. I just used BF/FF to indicate that there's nothing weird about loving either method.

"gooey" and 'inappropriate' is the gawping I experienced and hated. I thought that was clear but obviously not. It's not levied at the act of breastfeeding, more the reactions to it.

snort

Sorry snort was @ Fatima whitbreast!

Gawping and inappropriate - do you mean gawping at you BF ?
I did the [fuck off and stop staring at me face]
once ( the only time) a woman came up to me as I discretely BF in a café and said " My DH is offended by you BF " I replied " Tell him to stop fucking staring at me then "

I don't think anyone compared BFing to being an Olympian - it was an analogy.

Haha Alpa - like that response - how dare so,done be so rude. I don't get people to be honest. I remember a man tutted and made some remark about kids theses days because my DD was crying in a supermarket. I followed him around and told him that I was sorry my child offended him but one thing for sure she would never grow up to be as rude or ignorantl as he was - t@@@

Embarrassed that's the point I'm trying to make; people being proud of bf suggests that those of us who couldn't and had to ff should've "just tried harder". I tried so hard, by the end it had been so long since DD had fed that even the midwives suggested I switch to formula, because I couldn't even express enough to keep her going. She couldn't latch, despite no tongue tie, and I couldn't get enough out. No amount of determination could have stopped me having to formula feed, just like no amount of determination can stop some people requiring EMCS.

But people are still proud of it.

Ffs. I have said several times on this thread that I think bf should be never be a "hard sell", that women should be supported in their choices, should be listened to and have their feelings heard and acknowledged, and should never be judged. But somehow those comments are ignored in favour of a comment (not a fucking comparison) I used to illustrate that you can be proud of yourself for something without looking down on others who don't have a hope of doing it themselves or maybe don't even want to (the Olympics thing). Or when I point out that some - some! - women assume bf is a part of motherhoood.

The point is I am proud of my births, qualifications, some of the things my children have achieved, my partner's successes. I am proud regardless what anyone else in the world has done or not done and frankly am not interested in anyone else. Any clearer for you?

Another thing - people criticising the research without having read it - if you read the stuff and find issues with it that's great, point it out to the researchers or WHO or UNICEF or whoever and tell them what they've missed. There is no great conspiracy to mislead people here - the methodology, everything is there. I don't think anyone would claim the differences in health for healthy, full term babies in countries with reliably clean water supplies are all that huge, and as I said before I am not sure that is the driving force for many bf women anyway.

Fwiw the risk of PND is increased if women wanted to bf but couldn't, and lowered if women wanted to BF and did. most problems are fixable so we could lower the risk a great deal if we could support all women who are struggling. And that support is vital for those women where the problems aren't fixable.

I really hope there isn't going to be more stuff here that is misconstrued.

Those crying out about BFing and PND - BF actually reduces the chance of PND cos it releases happy hormones

Have you any idea how offensive that is?
23 years later I'm still angry about the loss of enjoyment and bonding of ds1 because no midwife had the balls to tell me to stop. It was never going to work.
And the NCT support group who ignored my depression and told me I would regret it if I didn't perservere.

fwiw the risk of pnd is increased if women wanted to bf but couldn't
What about those who may have had no intention of bf but who had pressure put on after.

Sorry but it is fine to be proud of yourself for breastfeeding. I am bloody proud of myself. I nearly quit so many times, I pushed through the pain, the blood blisters, the blocked ducts, the massively engorged noobs at 4 in the morning. I occaisionay hid under the duvet saying I couldn't do it anymore. But I did and I am so proud I myself for feeding him till he was 8 months old ( mixed from 10 weeks). Why the hell should anyone not be proud of themselves for pushing themselves like that?

punkrocker, am not aware of any study that has looked at that. My personal opinion is that anyone who directly targets women who have no intention of bfing is misguided and offensive though. Again, it ignores how women feel (just as you were ignored - you were badly let down by everyone, it sounds like). I can't imagine it would have anything but a negative effect.

I think we mostly agree on this thread about how any pressure is disgraceful. It's just that I would like it if more people recognised that many women do genuinely want to bf and it isn't ok to dismiss that by telling them it doesn't matter. I don't see how ignoring those women's feelings helps anyone.