To wonder why how you feed your baby is such an emotive subject?

[Absofrigginlootly]

Currently 3&1/2 weeks into BF my pfb/DD

Have had no end of feeding issues due to tongue tie, poor latch, constant cluster feeding, fractious baby and no sleep (alongside fertility issues, anxious pregnancy and very traumatic delivery)....

At my best moments I am feeling proud of the fact I've kept going so far. DD is putting on weight beautifully and following her centile line exactly. Lots of the daytime she seems happy and content.

At my worst (desperate!) moments (usually 3am when DD has been cluster feeding for hours and is being very fractious and i feel completely EXHAUSTED!) I think about all the advantages of FF (namely being able to share the feeds and have some physical/mental space from her for a while)......

But what stops me?! .....Guilt? Obligation? Self pressure? Desire to do what's deemed "right" or "best" for her?! Reading some of the feeding pages where people talk about expressing off pure blood etc (!) but still keeping going BF part of me reads it and thinks "gosh, why put yourself through it?!" ....but then I'm doing the same! Why.....? I don't know really if I'm honest.

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

Ps....please don't let this turn into a "breast is best"/ BF vs FF bunfight.....I am just genuinely interested to hear your thoughts, mainly as it may help me understand my own feelings that aim currently struggling with

Thanks :)

Those crying out about BFing and PND - BFing actually reduces a woman's chances of having PND cos it releases happy hormones.

These threads almost always throw up double standards. People like LePetit call BFing mums smug, sanctimonious etc yet imagine if a BFer called a FFer something like that.

They also throw up anecdotal evidence like it quashes any scientific research - It always makes me think of scientists on their labs scrolling through mumsnet and going "Ah shit! Susan from Solihull says little Jonny was BF and is always ill but Bobby who was FF has never had so much as a sniffle. Bang goes my 20 years of research!"

Agree with mini and vili people need to wipe their chips off their shoulders and direct their ire at being unable to BF at services that let hem down and formula companies that feed them bullshit. Not other mums on the Internet.

Why doesn't everybody just shut up and let women get on with it in any way they want to feed their babies? Who on earth feels entitled to keep telling women what they should or shouldn't be doing? The FF'ders are, in my experience, never smug but a often defensive (and with good cause) because some BF'ders are insufferable. Why does it matter what another woman does? Neither method is worthy of the Nobel Prize.

There's always research this and that regularly espoused/spouted (pick your term). People know where to find the information if they want it or maybe they prefer to just get on with the business of feeding their babies.

It's really a bit pathetic and it's the same old, same old. All it ever achieves is getting people's backs up... and for what useful purpose? Not education certainly.

Err chip why assume all ff ers were unable to bf??

The lack of support excuse is normally wheeled out to keep the overly interested pro bf ers interested.

Interested = happy

I like the use of Solihull though

Pomme exactly.... I wasn't unable to....I'm sure I could have given it a whirl if it was my desired path of feeding.

Some women actually choose to ff from birth.

Even 40 year Noella's from Knowle

pomme I do love a bit of alliteration. May I offer you a Lucy from Leicester? Or a Karen from Kent? although I didn't for one second assume all FFers tried to BF, just referring to people on this thread in that instance.

Also the way Lying speaks is the double standard I'm talking about. So im gonna throw this out there - I find some FFers insufferable, especially ones who believe because they Didn't BF that people who did breastfeed can't be proud or talk about it without accusations of being smug. Take your insecurities out on someone else please. Or even better, continue to walk around with your fingers in your ears going "la la la I'm not listening" cos you don't like what you hear

I don't respect BFers who've chosen to BF more than I respect FFers who've chosen to FF - I respect people who own their choices, like Only1 and don't need to drag other people's choice down to validate their own. Calling people smug and sanctimonious because they took a different path to you and are proud of it is a tad pathetic

Yes Chippy people should get rid of their chips shouldn't they. Ime those with an unhealthy interest in other mothers bfing often don't feel confident in other areas of parenting ie they put waaaay too much stock in the area they feel they succeeded in.

Oh and on my PND course the room was full of women having the most shite time thanks to bfing and those pushing it.Believe you me there were no happy hormones to be seen anywhere.

Oh and on my PND course the room was full of women having the most shite time thanks to bfing and those pushing it.Believe you me there were no happy hormones to be seen anywhere.

That's interesting anecdotal evidence but it doesn't negate the fact that what I said is true. There are many factors that contribute to PND, just because someone hated BFing doesn't make it the entire cause.

And thank you for your thinly veiled assumption that I must be a shit parent, however I'm pleased to say you're wrong. Some people like to support others and it irks me when other people's achievements and wishes get shouted down by people saying "as long as baby is fed what does it matter" when it DOES matter to a lot of people. This is a thread looking for opinions. People are expressing their opinions, if you want to see that as an 'unhealthy interest' be my guest.

Chippy... I've never talked about my feeding methods on MN so there's no double standards here. I think that women should leave other women alone. People that feel the need to meddle and tell others what they should be doing are insufferable. Is that better?

I research what I need to know, MN isn't the place that I would necessary come for an unbiased report. Again, no fingers in ears, they're busy holding my nose from the stench of judgement. I hate that.

You said this, Chipping... "Those crying out about BFing and PND - BFing actually reduces a woman's chances of having PND cos it releases happy hormones."

No ifs, buts or maybe's there.

Those crying out about BFing and PND - BFing actually reduces a woman's chances of having PND cos it releases happy hormones.

Wow, what a monumentally unsympathetic post. So what, all those women 'crying out' are ... lying...?

Sometimes those 'happy hormones' aren't quite enough to overcome the the lack of sleep due to being the sole night-time feeder (which can go on for months), nor the sometimes overwhelming responsibility of being physically tied to a baby who is so dependent on you.

As a breastfeeder, I am embarrassed by some of the attitudes on this thread.

But who is meddling? The OP asked for advice and opinions. Are we only supposed to give ones that tiptoe around a certain group so that they don't feel judged? No one is judging here!

What I don't think is right is implying that because you can't tell the difference in 10 year olds who was BF and who was FF that it doesn't matter in the long run. What bullshit! My DD has been BF for 18 months, she suffers from eczema and asthma (and before people get all giddy that this is proof BF doesn't work, nowhere will you find studies saying that BF prevents these). If I FFed she would possibly have it worse than she does now. It's hellish to deal with at times and I am proud that I took steps to prevent it from being worse than it is now. You may not be able to tell in 5 years time that she was BF but it matters to me knowing her eczema and asthma could have been worse but theyre not.

saying it makes no difference in the long run pisses all over many women's hard worked efforts to do what they're happy with and what is best for their baby

JapaneseMargaret I was referring to people on this thread who were claiming PND is caused by BF not actually people who suffer from PND (although I see now how it can be read that way)

What are your thoughts? Why do women persist despite the difficulties? Societal pressure? Guilt/obligation? And if you decided to FF, how did that make you feel? We're you fine with your decision?

That's from the OP ^^. She also said that she didn't want it to turn into a BF/FF bunfight, which it invariably does.

My own view is that it doesn't matter. That's not denigrating any woman's choice for their own method, everybody has their reasons and their own circumstances. What I don't like is women using their method as a stick to beat others with. It's unlikely that people will have the same set of circumstances so if one child has allergies and is BF, it can't be compared to another child FF without allergies. They are different circumstances.

Why would any woman get 'giddy' at allergies being proof that BF doesn't work? They wouldn't. They'd probably be very shocked but supportive. The fact that you think women would behave like this, Chipping is sad. It makes me think that really, women in general are rather rabid and can't leave each other alone in their choices.

There are some things that make me proud, there are other things that leave me cold. Different for each woman and, just because I may not be proud of BF'ing doesn't mean that I would immediately berate another woman for feeling proud of doing it. There is a huge difference. Just because I'm not proud doesn't mean that you or anybody else shouldn't be.

If posters always look for nasty nuances in things that people say here then they'll find them - and it makes this a judgemental, argumentative chatboard a 'guilty little secret' rather than a support for parents.

What I don't like is women using their method as a stick to beat others with

Agree. And think it's important to understand that its not just BFers who do this (although I do accept some BFers make twatty comments, but that's nothing to do with BF and more to do with being a dickhead). I'm pleased you've said that about being proud lying sadly some people on this thread think it's laughable that a woman should be proud of breastfeeding or giving birth because it's natural

I didn't feel there was any guilt or obligation to continue BF ,in fact I found that most people I encountered were baffled as to why I was BF and spent all their time telling me I was wrong, my baby would starve, FF was easier and I was weird, how do you know how much they have had (MIL)

I had a lovely NCT group and they were very supportive.
HCP were surprised that I EBF and didn't use any formula at all.

I persisted because I really wanted to do it and luckily for me I got some really good advice and support when it mattered and was able to continue with DC1 .
DC2 just latched on and there were no problems at all.

Chippy... The only marked difference is that a BF'ing woman will NEVER be criticised (particularly by other women) as having made a 'bad' choice. This is not the case for FF'ing women; they ARE frequently judged (particularly by other women) for 'not doing the right thing'.

It's that kind of viewpoint that gets right up my nose because all it does is make some women feel like they're bad mothers, just not trying, must be lacking in some way - and not doing the best for their baby.

I don't know if the opinions of others happen anywhere other than a chatboard but if they do, it's something that women (all of us) should perhaps take a bit of pause about because it achieves exactly nothing.

The only marked difference is that a BF'ing woman will NEVER be criticised (particularly by other women) as having made a 'bad' choice.

Not true at all ime.

LyingWitch I have to say I've seen a fair amount of aggression here against (presumed-to-be-smug) bfs than I've seen from them...I almost feel I have to apologise for having found it easy and HARDLY ANY WORK AT ALL!! no faffing about with sterilisers ffs whats not to like about that?where's the 'self-sacrificing martyrdom' there?folk should just not get all worked up and invertedly judgemental and unfairly accusing others of judging them

Really Lying I was inundated with " why are you BF, Your baby will starve, if you FF your baby will "be good" and sleep all night ,why bother?,how do you know how much they are getting ?
Constant undermining from day 1 and continuing with " are you still BF ?- how odd when DC1 was 13 months old.

I was a weirdo because I BF and loved it - it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life and I have no regrets years later.

Liara... apologies then, my experience is different. People go all 'gooey' and inappropriate about bf'ing in my experience when I wish they would just go-away.

jazz... If that's the case then I think it's because of the judgements; I'm obviously wrong about BF'ding being held in higher esteem but the fact remains, people think they have the right to opine on others' feeding choices... and they don't.

alpaca... I didn't experience this but I know my friend did from her 'helpful' inlaws. I've just remembered that now you've posted it. It makes me angry when women are undermined, it really does.

You're not weird to love BF/FF. From my experience, it's just nice to watch your child grow and thrive and see them develop. Feeding is a major part of that but for me it wasn't the main thing. I'm really glad you had a great experience and nice memories of it.

At the risk of sounding really trite, I think women should be openly and visibly supportive of each other when it comes to baby-feeding. Nobody else's decision impacts ours and other people's views on what feeding-women do just shouldn't matter a jot. I'd love to see a campaign here about that. I don't witness any of the incidents that posters report here but I would certainly jump to the mum's 'defence' and be in absolute support of her.

well said alpaca dont know where this idea started that ff mums are totally not judgemental (and thus superior to the 'naturally-smug-probably' bf lot)
someone said further back that HVs can be obsessed with centile charts agree with this and btw their data comes from ff babies, thus putting bfs 'in the wrong' weight-wise

To be fair, BF mums do get routinely criticised for making a bad choice. Not all breast feeding Mums will experience this, but plenty do - both by family members, strangers, and society.

One the one hand, society tells us breast feeding is the best thing for babies, but then society get completely grossed out when they're forced to actually see it happening in a public place!

And this is what frustrates me about the entire thing - no matter which method a mother chooses to get nutrition into her baby, there will be someone there to judge and disapprove.

Babies need milk, we all know that. Quite why the method for getting the milk into the baby gets people so worked up, is confounding.