To leave ds to scream in his cot tonight...

[listsandbudgets]

because I can't manage to deal with him tonight.

He's 2+4. EVERY NIGHT of his life he's screamed endlessly at bedtime. We tried going to him, lying down with him in the dark, cosleeping singing to him, letting him come downstairs, cuddling him, ignoring him, sitting holding his hand, seen GP and had various cchecks carried out to make sure he's not in some kind of pain...

but still he screams endlessly "MAMA,MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA...

Over and over again.

We finally get him off to sleep about an hour - two hours after putting him to bed (I say we its normally me as dp works away Monday to Thursday and someetimes longer).

He then wakes at 3am and it all happens again until about 4.30-5am.

Its affecting my mental health. I keep losing my temper, keep bursting into tears for no reason, I can't function properly at work and I'm facing a disciplinary for mistakes, I feel like everyone hates me and I wouldn't blame them

I've not had a full nights sleep since 3 months before he was born.

I can 't do it any more. I just can't do it....

AIBU to sleep in teh spare room with a pillow over my head and let him scream?

You'll all flame me I know you'll flame me and I deserve it.

He's still screaming I put him to bed at 8pm and I've already been in and given him 2 X10 minute cuddles

I would be afraid all the crying and upset could cause a convulsion which could be dangerous.

Unless her child has previous history of having seizures, he's not going to suddenly start convulsing.

Do you even have a kid?

Op I really feel for you. Sleep deprivation is hell on earth.
I am currently off sick with insomnia triggered by severe lack of sleep because our 3yo is such a poor sleeper. He had sleep apnoea which made him wake screaming his head off many many times a night. Having his tonsils out has sorted that but he still wakes because he still thinks it's happening. He's now in a pattern of waking and doesn't know why. We have a sleep clinic appointment coming up and hope to get some help there, because it's heartbreaking when he's woken for the umpteenth time and is sitting sobbing because he wants to go to sleep.

DS2 is also a shit sleeper, mainly because we've been so quick to respond to his cries for fear of waking DS1. That is something we will have to deal with too, and will possibly have to go to cc for that. He really won't settle on his own and for some reason hates his own room. At the moment, he co-sleeps and DH ends up on a mattress in DS1's room. It's the only way for us all to maximise sleep.

I would suggest going to your gp and asking for referral to the sleep clinic. Then you know you have covered everything.

Definitely try the things suggested - write them down and try them in turn, following each option exactly as it is supposed to work. Then you know you've tried everything and can push for a referral. The only other thing I'd say is, that this level of anxiety isn't normal. Is he like this about being out of sight of you in the house? Was there a time when he woke up and you weren't there? Where is he during the day - is he at childcare and if so, is he better when you're off work (so is there an issue with the provider that is making him unhappy/insecure)?

It really is difficult to understand how hard long term sleep deprivation is, and the toll it takes on your life, unless you have been through it. I sympathise OP, I really do.

My 3.5 yr old has just started reasonably reliably sleeping through. The problem for us was never getting him to go to sleep, he is out like a light, but would wake many many times during the night needing some sort of intervention from me. What that is has changed over the years. Sometimes a cuddle, sometimes milk, in the very early days it was rocking etc. We have also had the usual phases of early waking lasting sometimes for several months.

What has helped was moving house and a new room/bed (we didn't do this because of his sleep but at some points I would seriously have considered it!!). There was a very noticeable improvement around this time - 10 months ago. However the most drastic improvement has happened since this September and starting half days in nursery.

Looking back, I think that I made a bad sleeper worse by responding far too quickly in the very early days. The problem just escalated and changed and we all got tireder and tireder and couldn't do anything other than just carry on making the same mistakes. It was, and has been, a very very hard time.

I am now 6 months in with DS2. So far he has been a bit easier. A bit. But I am also a bit harder. I am not doing this for another 3.5 yrs. I am leaving him to have a little grumble for 10 minutes or so without responding. He has also got much better since going into his own room a few weeks ago. If he still wakes at night after being fully weaned then I will have no hesitation or guilt about sleep training this time. I have come to the conclusion that some babies do need to be taught how to sleep. They don't just 'get it.'

Like Ipswichwitch, I now suffer from chronic insomnia as a result of years of sleep deprivation. I hear crying in my head even when the house is quiet.

My sympathies OP. Even if this essay doesn't help I hope that it makes you realise that there are lots of us out there! Good luck.

Tbh I'd just leave him to it. .He knows now if he cries long enough you will come. And two tear olds can be stubborn. You need to be stronger and more stubborn.

He's warm, clean, fed etc there's nothing wrong. Except he wants you. Well it's time you had an evening now and he's going to have to learn this.

Don't care. He will give up. You just need to push through it.

Do it once and it should improve for the following day.

He'd only continuing because he knows you will go in.

Care?

Cave

I agree with everyone who suggests GP. And get yourself signed off with exhaustion whilst your at it. You've already proved your not for to work.

Get some specialist help. Your in a vicious circle and you need support because if you decide for the cry it out option you need the strength and report not to go in there.

Best if luck

Friends went to a sleep expert for advice.

I think what made the biggest difference was that the sleep expert assured them that they CAN fix this and that they follow the instructions and it will work. So the biggest change was that they felt confident and didn't transfer their anxiety, that it will never change, to baby.

So what would make a difference is if you could persuade yourself that things will change for the better.

Perhaps take a day or two off work so that you can sort this once and for all.

I would try the put to bed, tuck in, leave room, return after 3 mins, pat tummy, leave room return after 6 mins, pat tummy, leave room return after 9 mins etc etc and never never give up. And keep it up until it works.

Not *fit to work. Btw that is not a negative judgement I got signed off recently due to sleep deprivation caused by my 10yos sleep disorder.

We had trouble with #1 and he didn't cosleep well, he just wanted us there to fall asleep next to... for hours and not moving and it hurt my back and exhausted me. I spent three months moving further from the bed by centimetres at a time, minuscule steps. First on the edge of the bed, then on the floor but leaning over in touch, then on the floor holding a hand, then holding a finger, then not holding, then ten cm away etc. Took forever, he hated it and would call and cry but he didn't scream. I would say the same thing over and over, no variation. "I'm here". If he got up, I put him back without a cuddle at arms length because a cuddle just made it worse. I thought it was never going to end and it was more exhausting than lying with him but it did end and did work. I spent the last month on the step outside his door and inching towards our room still calling "I'm here".

Not sure if it helps any, but he is 18 now and sleeps like a log and has done since we broke this.

Hello OP. I have no advice to offer really as mine are (usually) good sleepers. People have said very wise things above. I hope you try some of them and they help.

For my part though, I'm worried about you. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE AND FEEL LIKE THIS. Seriously. You're going to go pop. I'm amazed you haven't already.

This is not GP-bashing; it's nigh on impossible to realise everything that's going on in a 10 minute appointment. And I bet you're putting on a jolly good show of coping. But I think it's time you got the professionals to treat this as the crisis it is and work together with you as a team to sort it out.

If that involves calling the HV and getting her to come and see you today and explaining everything, good. If it means sitting in the GP's waiting room in floods until someone sees you (have done this), again, fine. I think you need to be as emotional and stubborn as your LO right now, missus, so that people realise they need to step in and help.

Really good luck. You're SO strong for having lasted this long; I wouldn't.

My DD went through an awful time when she was about 2, waking up and crying, getting out of bed etc. We followed this article called 'You can get a good night's sleep' and I can remember sitting outside her room sobbing because I felt so guilty for letting her cry. My exDH almost held me down to stop me going in to her. The first couple of nights were hell on earth and then she slept through. It was very quick.

She's 24 next month and I can confirm she has no lasting memory and she's absolutely fine! It was hard but it worked. I'd leave him to cry. He's crying anyway.

Good luck - it's horrendous when you are sleep deprived.

Poor you OP. Just reading your post makes me feel tired. Can I ask a few questions, Do you play with DS in his room during the day? It could be that he associates the room with play and you being with him. Thus when he goes to sleep, he's bored and he doesn't like it. If so, I would start bringing all toys and play downstairs, to demarcate his day.

When he's saying Mama, is he crying, as in tears and upset, or calling to you? If it's the latter, I would just leave him to it. To me, it's the same lesson as 'Mummy's talking, wait a second.' He is old enough to begin to learn that you are separate people now. It is an important lesson, especially if there will be more DC in the future.

If he's crying rather than shouting, have you got a baby monitor? We used this with DS2 when he was younger, so that I could soothe him without going into the room, which started him up again worse, when I would leave.

Does he have a sleep toy? Only use this toy for bedtime and he will associate it with sleeping and will find it interesting to play with until he drops off.

I would also shorten your bedtime wind down, as sometimes a big protracted palaver, can make it seem more of a 'thing' to small kids and can make them tense up, IYSWIM.

As others have suggested, I would drop off a day nap, if he still has one, failing that, gp and sleep clinic.

Your child is fed, warm , comfortable. All his NEEDS are being met.On the other hand he WANTS the day to continue .He WANTS your attention 24 hours (like any child) because it's more fun than lying down and going to sleep.
You don't have to indulge all his wants and in fact you are harming him by doing so.make the room nice and dark say goodnight and leave him to it.
Not for a night or 2, you have to be consistent and do it every night.It will be hell for you the first night and to a lesser extent the second night and by the end of teh week he'll have caved.

Yes bulbasaur I have children and I have worked with babies and toddlers for the past 14 years. If a toddler gets very upset they can hold there breath which in turn could cause a convulsion ( small chance but still possible) also they can vomit if they are really upset so that's why I do not agree with simply sticking in earplugs and going to sleep!!! I'm shocked at some of the replies. Nobody in the medical profession would suggest leaving a child to cry all night! There are correct ways to do this and this lady needs expert help.

According to my mother I had several seizures as a small child as a result of "breath holding" during moments of great upset or temper tantrums. - was rushed to hospital several times after failing to resume breathing. She was told to chuck water in my face when it happened! (40 years ago mind....)

They call it something else now as apparently it is involuntary and not really holding your breath - but I've forgotten what it's now called. But it does happen.

How is he sleeping during the day? Perhaps cut out any day time naps, and wake him up early, like 6/7am. Keep him awake and active all day and then see if he plonks out for the whole night due to tiredness.

Poor you :( you cannot carry on like this - please go back to your gp and beg / plead/ insist on some proper expert help.

I'd leave him to cry - get earplugs or sound blocking headphones. take it in turns to check on baby monitor that he's still calling and not choking or whatever. It will not end if you keep going in to him. Co-sleeping also not going to work if he even cries when you turn away, it's time he learned how to self soothe and that you are not his slave.

I couldn't leave my DS to cry because he starts making himself vomit after 3 mins if he's not consoled. I'd rather sort out a problem without crying where possible.

I couldn't leave my DS to cry because he starts making himself vomit after 3 mins if he's not consoled

..and??
have his bed double sheeted and a spare duvet ready.When he does his party trick go in in the half light.wipe him down change his PJs and bedding .No speaking , no eye contact.
It is manipulation! My DB did this until about 4 when my parents wised up.When he didn't get the attention , he stopped it.
Don't let him wrap you round his little finger!!

I would leave him to cry it out tbh.

Like a pp said, make it very boring if you do go in - a stroke of the hair and 'night night', then leave - DO NOT PICK HIM UP OR CUDDLE HIM - that's what he wants.

It may take a few nights but is worth it in the end. Stick with it and don't cave.

Yep. So if he starts choking on his sick and stops breathing it'll be his lesson learned for manipulating me at age, 2.10. .

DS doesn't have a problem with sleeping. He goes up to bed himself after declaring he's tired at around 7pm and stays asleep until 7am.

He only does the vomit when he's going through a situation he can't explain/control and is crying out of frustration. A quick hug and eye contact stops him from making a mess of everything and calms him down.

It's fine if you don't want him cry and be sick. He won't choke on his vomit.