To have no idea how to explain to my 9 year old DD what The Rapist Ched Evans did

[Hoppinggreen]

DD has obviously picked up some snippets about this and has asked what happened. She does know about sex but we haven't discussed what rape is and I don't know his to explain why the victim went to the hotel and what went on from there. I don't want to victim blame but I do want to perhaps talk to her about personal safety.
I also want to make the point that what The Rapist and his apologists are doing now is wrong and how Jessica Ennis ( who she worships) has done a great thing by condemning Sheffield utds actions.
Any suggestions?

Its like any situation where a criminal is involved whether its a simple phone snatch or rape or child abduction
The perpetrator is looking for a victim and will strike no matter what ..

All you can do is try to make it harder for the victim to be you ... and sometimes employing simple tactics will help

But sometime you can do everything you can to protect yourself and your family but if the perpetrator is determined enough they will get around your safeguards

I will teach my boys and girls personal safety. Like we all do I am sure.

Don't walk home alone in the dark, stay with friends or get a taxi
Keep your doors locked
Be careful how much you drink

This is just standard personal safety. If anything does happen to them if they haven't followed that advice then no, they aren't responsible. If they get mugged walking down an alley in the dark they aren't responsible for the crime, but I would rather they didn't put themselves in the position where it is easier for them to be mugged. It is less likely to happen if they are with others and in well lit areas I imagine.

I just don't think those safety tips translate well to lowering the risk of rape, considering only a small percentage of rapes are done by strangers in dark alleyways. If the majority of rapes are done by people you know, which I believe they are? then how does any personal safety lessons help prevent it? When I was 13 my neighbour bribed be, made me do sexual acts and threatened to jump of the bridge if I didn't. He flashed me, drawed pornographic pictures of me. My point is, my whole family trusted him, they had known him since he was a baby, I used to play with him when I was a toddler. Until it happened we had no idea he was like that, we thought he was just a normal decent lad. Nothing could have prevented that and I don't think personal safety lessons will lower the risks of rape happening at all, but I can see why some people think it does. It is very scary knowing we and our children can be raped, and there is fuck all we can do to prevent it, so I think some people want to convince themselves there is so they can feel a bit safer.

off the bridge*

Lets say there are two blokes in a town centre, and they are looking for someone to 'go back to a hotel room with'. Are they going to choose the girl who looks to be having a laugh with a group of mates, or are they going to choose the girl who is stumbling around on her own, visibly drunk? Who is the more vulnerable target? Surely its better to try and be the first girl not the second one? That does not mean in any way that the second girl would be to blame if something happened, just that.....well, its just better to be the first girl isn't it?

By the way, I actually want someone to come along and refute this argument for me, as this is a discussion that I have sometimes in real life around 'victim blaming' - but if someone comes up with the above argument, I never really know how to reply!

Myempire - I think that's a really really good point - why do we treat rape differently from any other form of assault, or burglary, or any other crime where there is an identifiable victim. We shouldn't, and maybe the fact that some people do, means we're not able to discuss the issue properly. That's perhaps the real tragedy, that we can't have an open discussion about ways to keep safer (not safe, safer) without people jumping up and down and shouting 'but you're victim blaming'.

It was piper's post of 20.48 yesterday which said:
'Perhaps I am wrong and I need to tell my children about preventing rape, but at a loss on how to because I believe it's never the victims fault.'

That is just so wrong - as parents we absolutely shouldn't be wrestling with how or if to equip our daughters ways in which they MAY reduce (NOT alleviate, but reduce) the risk of them being raped, sexually assaulted, mugged, drink spiked etc etc (similarly our sons...). To avoid the conversation entirely because whilst it's true a rapist will rape irrespective of our or our dd's actions, a) her actions might mean he rapes someone else instead of my dd, and b) as a message seems to reduce our dd's to powerless, delicate little girls who can't avoid nasty things happening to them. The balance of power just seems wrong.

U2 - personal safety lessons etc clearly don't reduce the risk of you being raped by someone you know - which as a pp said is 92% of all reported rapes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and reduce the risk of being one of the remaining 8%.

That may well be true empire. But I have a teenage dd. I'm sure we've all heard about teenage house parties where someone ends up pregnant, where several girls are in tears the next day when they've sobered up cos actually, they didn't want Gary to finger them, and that Wayne is a wanker cos he shagged Tracey after he got his hands inside her bra etc etc. These sexual assaults very rarely get reported, but teenage girls are most definitely at risk, and I'd like to empower my dd to if not completely avoid being assaulted in such a way, at least reduce the chances.

Rapes in unlicensed taxis are statistically very very rare, but presumably none of us would encourage our daughters to take one home, just in case they are the one in ten thousand or whatever.

But it is still worth minimising the risks where it doesn't impact your freedom.

Looking before crossing the road was maybe a bad example. How about burglary? How many of those shouting "victim blaming" on this thread lock their doors and close their windows when they leave the house? Why? If a burglar wants to rob a house they will, but they will pick the target that poses least risk to them?

What is so unique about rape that means people shouldnt take basic prevautions? Of course rape is only the fault of the rapist, and if they want to rape they will, but isn't it best to try and do things that mean they don't choose to rape because you pose too much risk to them?

Of course we should be able to walk completely naked, completely hammered through a lonely park at 3 am with nothing happening to us. But does anyone genuinely think this would be a good idea?

Also, should I be complaining to DDs nursery as the police did a stranger danger talk the other day? Should I not tell my four year old to get into strangers cars because this is victim blaming?

I'm worried that people seem to think teenagers only have sex when drunk! or talk to boys or get in cars or walk along the road for that matter!

ItsAllGoing - are you really that stupid, or just trolling?

Empowered, confident, strong women can be very attractive to a particularly dangerous type of rapist, not all rapists prey on the most vulnerable.

Of course we should be able to walk completely naked, completely hammered through a lonely park at 3 am with nothing happening to us. But does anyone genuinely think this would be a good idea? not in November no - far too cold !

but to be serious your post again illustrates so many stereotypes about rape - after dark, in a park - you are more at risk at home in your PJ's or at work or walking the dog in broad daylight

you seem to think rapists pick targets based on lack of risk or 'weakness' which isn't true - just like burglars don't always target empty houses or ones with open windows

There is a definite theme on this thread from some quarters suggesting that rapists rape and therefore suggesting that people might want to consider personal safety is victim blaming.

Ghosty - do you have a link to evidence the backs your claims up? Since you are sure that women are on more danger at home or at work than they would be alone in a park after dark.

What about the "particularly dangerous" type of rapist who prefers confident women?

Women are more likely to be raped by a stranger when they are sober and on their way to work? I'd like to see the evidence for all those statements. It would be interesting to read.

Again, in reference to the 8% of rapes carried out by strangers. That is what the OP was asking about, as it what happened to the victim in the Ched Evans case.

Please can you post a link to the stats about rape by strangers? I can't find them.