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AIBU?

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Original poster

To have no idea how to explain to my 9 year old DD what The Rapist Ched Evans did

550 replies

Hoppinggreen · 16/11/2014 19:38

DD has obviously picked up some snippets about this and has asked what happened. She does know about sex but we haven't discussed what rape is and I don't know his to explain why the victim went to the hotel and what went on from there. I don't want to victim blame but I do want to perhaps talk to her about personal safety.
I also want to make the point that what The Rapist and his apologists are doing now is wrong and how Jessica Ennis ( who she worships) has done a great thing by condemning Sheffield utds actions.
Any suggestions?

OP posts:
LadyLuck10 · 16/11/2014 20:22

Read my post properly. I said 'a person' and 'minimize risks' which could be any risk.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 16/11/2014 20:25

I would absolutely love to not have to have a conversation with my daughter about keeping herself safe, and of course the only person responsible for raping a woman is the Rapist but if there might be things I could tell DD to help keep her safe then I will.
I do agree though that the conversation should be saved for another time so as not to cloud the issue so thank you to people who made that point.

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 16/11/2014 20:31

Why respond to Piper then LadyLuck as she was specifically talking about women not having to take personal responsibility for rape? I'd also like to know what a woman could do to prevent herself being raped?

SoggyOldBiscuit · 16/11/2014 20:31

I think a discussion about personal safety can be relevant and that it isn't about victim blaming.

My DM was raped as a teenager by a stranger, who grabbed her when she was walking home alone at night, after a night out. She told me about this when I was in my teens. My DM always hammered told me that I should NEVER walk home alone in the dark after a night out when friends, always to get a taxi and to stay with friends when out, be aware of people around me when I was out, that type of thing.

I never thought that she was blaming herself because of what happened to her, she was unlucky to be walking along the same street as a rapist, not to blame for walking that way by herself. But, I got the point, which was that there are certain things you can do to increase your safety.

I would tell both my DS & DD's (when they are old enough to drink alcohol) that getting so drunk you cannot walk properly is a bad idea. For several reasons, and personal safety is one then, for both sexes.

scallopsrgreat · 16/11/2014 20:34

Yet most rapes happen in the home and the vast vast majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows.

SoggyOldBiscuit · 16/11/2014 20:34

Should be "always hammered home to me" - sorry, phong autocorrect!

PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/11/2014 20:40

8% of rape was by strangers. I don't see how anybody can take personal safety against rape when 92% happens with people the victim knows.

www.wdvf.org.uk/RapeHO.pdf

LadyLuck10 · 16/11/2014 20:43

Can't cut and paste but fully agree with your last paragraph soggy.

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 16/11/2014 20:43

DD hasn't asked me about this particular subject but she was about 9 when she asked me about rape, due to her reading a advertisement for a rape crisis hotline. We pretty much went along with what other people have said already, but also talked about her body being her own and no-one having the right to touch her without permission and that she should talk to me or Dad if anyone makes her uncomfortable or upset.

PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/11/2014 20:48

When children are young we say to wear a helmet when riding a bike, that make sense as if they fall off the bike their heads are protected.
I tell my children not to climb on tables ect as they could fall and hurt them selves.

This is great personal safety advice.

I don't leave valuables in sight in my car, because the car could be broken into. I would get over it as after all it would be something that is easy replaced and windows can be replaced.

Perhaps I am wrong and I need to tell my children about preventing rape, but at a loss on how to because I believe it's never the victims fault.

We should be able to walk anytime of the day, go out and get drunk, wear what we like with out the fear of being raped.

parakeet · 16/11/2014 20:48

Why does it have to be either or? I plan to give my girls advice to reduce their risk of both kinds of rapes - those by strangers and those by people they know.

LadyLuck10 · 16/11/2014 20:52

Piper I do not disagree with you. You're right we should be able to do anything we want and not be in fear of being harmed, but that's in an ideal world. The reality is there is a lot of precautions we should be taking because we do not live in an ideal world. It's unfortunate but it's reality.

Shallishanti · 16/11/2014 20:54

wrt to explaining rape, when a child says 'how can you have sex if you don't want to'
I read this explanation (years ago so sorry can't give source)
mother is answering her young ds- he is asking about rape, isn't sex meant to be nice?
she strokes his arm gently- does that feel nice?
ds- yes
then she smacks him hard - did that feel nice?
ds- no, it was nasty
dm- you see, it's the same hand and the same arm, but I can use it to make you feel nice OR to hurt you
I think that's a helpful analogy- I agree with other posters that getting into why she was in the hotel room, if she was drunk etc is all irrelevant and I'd only mentio it if the dc did, and then explain it doesn't matter where you are, what you're wearing or anything else.

PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/11/2014 20:55

So how are people on this thread going to say to your DC, I'm interested.

ghostyslovesheep · 16/11/2014 20:58

Piper if your child was on a table and somebody pushed them out would you blame your child? If they where on a bike without a helmet and a car deliberately ran into them would you blame them? Rape isn't something you can prevent because you have no control over it it is done TO you.

OP I would answer:

"what did that footballer everyone is talkng about do" made the woman have sex when she didn't want to
" why are lots of people saying that Jessica Ennis is very brave" because she stood up and said he was a bad man when other people where saying he wasn't all bad
" why would the lady go to the hotel with someone she didn't know" because she trusted him and liked him
" how can someone have sex if they don't want to" because if you are scared or drunk or they hurt you it's difficult to stop somebody

you don't need to be graphic but she's asking so you should answer - sadly rape happens to children as well as adults so it's not wrong for them to know about it

JennyBlueWren · 16/11/2014 20:59

In To Kill a Mocking Bird Atticus (the lawyer) explains rape to 9 year old Scout as "knowledge of a lady without consent". My opinion is that you tell them as much as they need to know.
So in your case as she already knows about sex I'd say that rape is forcing someone to have sex when they don't want to. You don't need to go into the details of the actual case.

Andrewofgg · 16/11/2014 21:02

I remember explaining to my DS that sex is not nice if you are making the other person do it because part of what makes it good is the other person enjoying it too. I think he was 11 at the time and there had been a lot on the news about a rape trial.

SoggyOldBiscuit · 16/11/2014 21:04

Piper - I taught my young DC the NSPCC 'underwear rule'. In an ideal world, worries about sexual abuse would never cross my mind. But in this world, I feel I have to try and protect them, in an age-appropriate way, just in case.

As they get older, is the same type of thing I suppose but talking about it in a way that is suitable for their age and understanding. As well as trying to give some advice, just talking about issues that might be difficult, so that they know they can come back and ask you more questions if they need to.

YonicScrewdriver · 16/11/2014 21:15

Op, you may want to make clear that Ched Evans came to the hotel later without being asked it without her even knowing he was coming, if that helped with that question.

morethanpotatoprints · 16/11/2014 21:16

My 10 year old has no idea about it, nor who Jessica Enis is.
I have heard the name vaguely, don't know who she is though.
I suppose I'd tell her in an age appropriate way, that she didn't want sex with him.
Apart from this I'd be a bit lost. Not something I'd want to discuss at this age, tbh.

Momagain1 · 16/11/2014 21:20

Get her to explain what she thinks she knows, and then clarify. You don't have to offer more info than that. Unless she asks for more.

It's OK to tell her that it is hard for you to talk about the subject, but that it is important for the two of you to be able to AND YOU ARE GLAD SHE ASKED YOU. That she felt comfortable and comfident to come to you is the most important thing here, and you don't want to put her off that.

It may turn out that she has learned enough that you have to explain more than you wished. If you need to, tell her you are unprepared to answer as well as she needs, that you need to look something up to make sure you have it straight (this applies to his court case as well as any sex ed type topic this leads into). Research, prep your response, but most impotantly, DON'T fail to get back to her in a timely manner.

Good luck!

titchy · 16/11/2014 21:21

Piper of course we SHOULD be able to wear what we want, go where we want and get as drunk as we want. But the sad reality is these are risky behaviours and if anything happened to my dd in such circumstances it categorically wouldn't be her fault.

But I'd far more prefer her not to get so drunk she can't stand up, and possibly risk being attacked.

Presumably you taught your kids to cross at a zebra crossing AND look both ways for cars? In an ideal world you wouldn't need to tell them to look both ways because all drivers are careful and look out for pedestrians and so would stop to allow them to cross. But we don't live in an ideal world so we try and mitigate against risks as much as possible, because careless drivers exist and rapists exist.

Neverbuyheliumbalonz · 16/11/2014 21:23

morethan - this is a slight aside, but you and your child dont know who Jessica Ennis is?! Are you in the UK?

lougle · 16/11/2014 21:29

Could you just say: "The law says that sex is something that people should only have if they are absolutely sure that both people want it. The law says that if someone is very drunk, they can't decide that they really want sex, so nobody should have sex with them until they aren't so drunk that they can't decide. This man ignored that and so he went to prison."

PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/11/2014 21:31

Accidents do happen and you can try and prevent them as much as possible.

It's good to teach the underwear rule and to teach children that their body are their own.

Rape exists. Teaching them the above does not prevent rape.