To have no idea how to explain to my 9 year old DD what The Rapist Ched Evans did

[Hoppinggreen]

DD has obviously picked up some snippets about this and has asked what happened. She does know about sex but we haven't discussed what rape is and I don't know his to explain why the victim went to the hotel and what went on from there. I don't want to victim blame but I do want to perhaps talk to her about personal safety.
I also want to make the point that what The Rapist and his apologists are doing now is wrong and how Jessica Ennis ( who she worships) has done a great thing by condemning Sheffield utds actions.
Any suggestions?

I mean that I think that rushing out of my house without having a reliable means of communication when it was a non-emergency situation was silly. Stepping into a stranger's house and allowing them to shut the door was a stupid thing to do.

And no, I don't think it would have been my fault, but I recognise that if I had been there were steps I could have taken (having a charged phone; asking for a phone number or even name of the house I was going to; not going into a stranger's house and allowing them to shut the door) to reduce my risk.

lougle this may be deleted.

But why the fuck are you defending a rapist.

I love going out getting drunk, eating a kebab and trying to get home because taxi are full.

Why should I as a mother who does this 1-2 a year have to take 'personal responsibility' if I was ever raped DH wouldn't wait for court or the police that pond scum would be dead.

It just shows, lougle, that even the most sensible of us can make 'mistakes' (?) and neglect all those 'safety precautions' - due to being in a rush/busy/distracted/unforeseen circumstances.

It doesn't mean the victim is to blame - but when people harp on about a 'responsibility to keep yourself safe' - then it does lead to victim blaming, and to rape victims blaming themselves.

I'm not defending a rapist. I'm defending an opinion that women can make decisions to get drunk and wander around inebriated trying to find taxi, as is their right, but that those women are, at that point in time, more at risk from any man in the vicinity who is inclined to rape than a sober woman, aware of her surroundings, with friends who accompany her to a safe place.

It isn't about whether they should be at risk.

Nobody has said 'a responsibility to keep yourself safe.' It's a responsibility to weigh up the risks you put yourself at and decide if they are risks worth taking. Which is very different.

You are. I think you are to thick to understand that point

Lougle, why are you trying to make that point? You were sober last night presumably.

It's exactly what people have been saying lougle - it's not different at all.

Piper, it's 'too', not 'to'.

Sabrinnnnnnnna you asked me a question. I answered it.

Just to make my point 100% crystal clear. DH is the only person who I have had sex with.

I have been out drunk from the age 15, with a fake id. I am now close to 29 and never been raped because I have not been in company of a rapist.

lougle, if anything bad had happened to you last night, how useful would it be for you to say to yourself 'oh, but I was so stupid I forgot to charge my phone and I didn't weigh up the risks of knocking on the door for directions responsibly enough."

You'd be a victim of a crime - to start analysing your own behaviour is to partially blame yourself for your part in what is purely a crime against you.

Research shows this is what rape victims, and it shows that this can prevent the victim from reporting the crime. This is not a good thing for the victim, or for society.

Come back fighting I fucking dare you.

Never said this, but my sister was raped.

Do you have a fucking idea what she was put thought. She was raped but then in order to get evidence she had to have a speculum stuck up her vagina and have swaps taken. She had to face the fa t that even though DNA was found to be crossed examine. The fucker who raped her said it was not rape she agreed to sex.

How it ended it wasn't enough evidence.

My sister turned to heroin.

My sister was sober.

LouGlee where are.

Please explain how my sister at 15 and sober should have avoided this

for your sister piper.

Don't worry about her she has had tons of support.

That's scum is nothing more than a bad memory.l

That's not the action of a man who cares about consent enough to need to 'kid himself'. That's the action of a man who knows he isn't going to give the woman a choice.

Exactly! He had no idea that she was drunk & unable to consent when he turned the cab around, he wanted to have sex with her. I believe that that is a man who still stop at nothing to get what he wants.

Piper I'm sorry your sister experienced that. I don't see how that changes my stance that some women put themselves at more risk by their behaviour.

The fact that you have been out drunk from the age of 15 with fake ID and never been raped doesn't strengthen your argument. It just makes you lucky.

Sabrinnnnnnna I think that realising that I've done a stupid thing is very helpful because I won't be doing it again. I'm just lucky I got away with it.

One question about the CE case:

CE was tried and found guilty of rape by a jury who decided that the woman did not have capacity to consent if indeed she did appear to consent, or that she never gave consent and CE is lying. We've been told, in this thread, that we must accept that jury's decision as they saw the evidence. Fair enough.

Yet, McD was found 'not guilty' of a rape charge against a rape victim by the same jury, who was deemed competent enough to find CE guilty, but poster (s) on here have said 'I still believe McD did rape her'.

How is it that we have to accept the guilty verdict without question, but not the 'not guilty' one?

some women put themselves at more risk by their behaviour.

That ^ right there is victim blaming. Whether you like it or not.

And the fact that you use the term "some" women - just means you are judging those women.

You are dividing women into those who in some way deserve to be raped, because they put themselves at risk, and those who didn't deserve to be raped, because they didn't take 'risks.'

And in answer to your rather goady question about CE:

Because a 'not guilty' verdict in court means that the jury didn't find there enough evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt.

A rapist getting not guilty =/= rape didn't happen.

But I really have had enough of this fuckwittery, lougle. You're not really that naive are you? Your posts are just nasty now.

And, once again, we do not know the basis of the jury's decision. The judge, in his comments, mentioned the lack of capacity of the victim. That is all.