To have no idea how to explain to my 9 year old DD what The Rapist Ched Evans did

[Hoppinggreen]

DD has obviously picked up some snippets about this and has asked what happened. She does know about sex but we haven't discussed what rape is and I don't know his to explain why the victim went to the hotel and what went on from there. I don't want to victim blame but I do want to perhaps talk to her about personal safety.
I also want to make the point that what The Rapist and his apologists are doing now is wrong and how Jessica Ennis ( who she worships) has done a great thing by condemning Sheffield utds actions.
Any suggestions?

And just to add, that I admire and understand those women who protested by parading with bare chests, saying that their behaviour didn't encourage rape. I am not saying that any woman should be forced to limit their life to try and prevent a crime. What I am saying is that women should be aware that if they exercise their freedoms, they may be more vulnerable to the crime of a rapist.

Ok, not STI. Nobody would suggest that a Portsmouth supporter wears a Portsmouth football shirt and walks into a pub full of Southampton supporters after winning a match. Why not? If he/she has a right to wear what they like and a right to drink in any pub they like? Because, it is likely that someone will show violence to them.

It wouldn't be their fault. It wouldn't be the Portsmouth supporter's fault that someone chose to be violent. However, it may be seen as a good precaution to either cover the shirt before entering the pub or not wearing it in the first place.

I know we have vaginas and they can't be hidden, but I think rape is not about the vagina, it's about the woman who owns that vagina and overpowering her.

However the police would be called and there would be no need to do an intimate exam in order to get evidence.

Many years ago I was in a club with my sil. At some point we became seperated and I was looking for her. I have few memories of that night(I believe my drink was spiked) but do remember a man pulling and coaxing me towards the back of an open van.
I used to do a marshall art and pulled away and ran back to the club.

Later that night my dh came to pick me up and found me leaving with a man, I was out of it totally and sil was very worried.

I was lucky. Even with all of the precautions I took I very nearly became a statistic. A few minutes earlier and dh would not have been able to challenge the man(who ran off very quickly) and take me home.

It was not my fault although there are some on here who would say it was because I had a few (no more than usual) drinks.

Everyone going on about a girl/women being drunk...

YOU DO REALISE THAT CHED EVENS DID NOT KNOW THE CONDITION OF HIS VICTIM WHEN HE TURN THAT TAXI AROUND.

He went to have sex with a woman. He didn't go because she was drunk, or because he saw her to be vulnerable...he went because his friend told him he 'got a bird'

He went to that hotel room planning to have sex with a woman. he didn't care what state she was in, so please....the drunk bit is a HUGE red herring.

I can no more leave that physical vulnerability at home than a woman can leave her rapeable orifices behind. Considering you objected to a poster saying "when the rape happened" on a another thread on this matter, I am surprised at your use of words for the above.

I do not have "rapeable orifices". I have a vagina, an anus & a mouth (as I am assuming you are talking about those) To call them that makes it sounds like we are responsible for any sexual assaults that happen to us because we have the attractive holes in us that are oh so rapeable!

There are different types of rapist though, aren't there? No. Any man who doesn't take no for an answer/doesn't get consent is a rapist, I don't care what the circumstances are.

If you could do something that can minimize your risk of being raped, why shouldn't you do it. THE ONLY THING THAT WILL PREVENT YOU BEING RAPED IS NOT BEING IN THE COMPANY OF A RAPIST.

And seeing as we don't know is likely to rape us & who isn't, it is a bit difficult to achieve that! Woman have been raped in broad daylight. My friend was sexually assaulted on a train, going to work, at 8am... PLENTY of women on here have posted about their partner/dh/friend raping them.

They weren't raped because they shared a bed/house with him, my friend wasn't assaulted because she has a job...it all happened because they were in the company of a rapist.

I think the fact that she was so incredibly drunk took away any option she had for resisting or refusing that contact, though. So now it was her fault because she was too drunk to resist/refuse sex? Nice.

But if I am, I'll know that I did everything I could think of to protect myself from it. Oh dear...you ARE NOT protecting yourself from rape at all. The ONLY reason you haven't been raped is because YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE COMPANY OF A RAPIST, WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO RAPE YOU. Not wearing heels, telling someone at all times where you are, carrying a phone, etc etc IS NOT PROTECTING YOU AGAINST RAPE.

I disagree. I'm not saying I'm protecting myself against rape. I'm saying that I minimise those circumstances that could lead to a compromised position, whilst acknowledging that if a man wanted to rape me, he could and he would.

I know that in my normal state (who knows what adrenaline would do) I am no match for any determined man. On the few occasions I have play fought with DH, he can pin my arms above my head with one hand and I am completely powerless. He isn't excessively strong, I am just relatively slight.

I don't agree that we all have equal chance of being raped. I really don't. I also don't agree that all men are potential rapists. I also don't agree that all women would be equally vulnerable to a man intending to rape. In fact there have been cases covered in the press where a rape had occurred and another woman has come forward to say that they were almost raped but the attempt was aborted.

I don't think it does women any favours to be presented with a fait accompli style notion that if you're in possession of a vagina, your fate is sealed and if you aren't raped you're just one of the lucky ones.

The only thing I consider in any way to make me slightly less at risk of being raped is that I take martial arts classes, and even then I acknowledge that it probably wouldn't make much difference except in fairly limited circumstances.

lougle I'm sorry that you live in such fear. I don't think that there is very much point in having permanently raised anxiety levels and distrusting all men. It seems a sad way to live to me, and I doubt it does very much to change your statistic risk of being raped.

Personally I consider myself to be lucky in that I've only been seriously sexually assaulted twice, and never raped. However considering that one time I was only 12 and walking through a crowded park on a sunny Saturday afternoon I really do resist most strenuously the idea that the risk of rape can be minimized in any meaningful fashion. I was not irresponsible, and I defend my right, and that of my daughter to be able to walk alone from time to time.

Most people are very unlikely to be raped by a stranger, and there is not much you can do to protect yourself. Far too many variables to consider. More important I think to provide the right response, support and where possible to prosecute. All the protect yourself/take responsibility rape myths do is reduce the likelihood of the person raped going to the police, being supported, and overcoming the trauma and increase the likelihood of the rapist being set free because the jury decide that really it wasn't all his fault, how dare any woman believe that she was entitled to any freedom at all.

Statistically it is quite clear we don't all stand the same chance of being raped!

No one on here has EVER said that being drunk, snogging strangers, flashing your norks, getting an unlicensed taxi or anything else will CAUSE someone to rape you. Everyone has acknowledged that if a man is going to rape he is going to do so. But by avoiding those actions, maybe, just maybe it'll be someone else.

differentnamefor this I used the phrase to which you object as a quotation from what another poster said on this or one of the related threads. I am troubled that it gives you offence. There are some subjects on which I don't mind giving offence but rape is not one of them. Please believe me. The view I take is clear enough from my posts. I blame rapists and only rapists for rape.

Search shoes that the quotation comes from MyEmpireOfDirt and it was that post which I was writing about. I did not just use such a phrase out of the whole cloth.

From National Institute Alcohol Abuse (US) site

a study among college men found that increased alcohol consumption in social situations increased the participants’ misperceptions of women’s cues (Abbey et al. 1998). The extent of such misperceptions, in turn, was related to the frequency with which the men committed sexual assault. In a parallel study among college women, drinking in situations in which men misperceived the women’s sexual intentions increased the likelihood that the women became victims of a sexual assault (Abbey et al. 1996a). In addition, Testa and Livingston (1999) found that women who had been drinking prior to being sexually assaulted reported that their intoxication made them take risks that they normally would avoid. For example, the women felt comfortable accepting a ride home from a party with a man they did not know well or letting an intoxicated man into their apartment.

I don't think there is a 'type' of woman who will be raped

I certainly don't live in fear, at all. My sister 'pitied' me because I am not particularly strong and I lead a lifestyle where I don't see the less savoury men in society. We're 'chalk and cheese'. She's friends with many people who are responsible for whatever crime rate we have in our locality. She actually said to me 'I pity you and worry for you. What are you going to do if you're walking alone through at 2 am and someone tries to attack you.' My response was 'But I wouldn't be walking alone through at 2 am....'

I don't fear rape. I don't have to. I'm lucky that the men I know and spend time with are decent and honorable people (who incidentally all hold the belief in abstinence prior to marriage). I'm lucky that I live in an area that is safe and I have a car to drive at night. I'm lucky that I rarely, if not never, have cause to be alone with a man who is less familiar to me.

I would say that puts me at a very low risk of being raped. If I was raped there is nothing I could do about it.

No Empire I don't think anyone has, explicitly or otherwise, said that a woman's behaviour CAUSES a man to rape her.

But there are significant differences in the likelihood of a particular woman being raped - see the link that Piper posted. And highlighting those differences isn't victim blaming - it's simply recognizing that you may fall into a higher risk group, and that's a good thing to be aware of.

I still don't get WHY it is OK to say to a teenage boy that he should modify his behaviour when walking in the dark through an estate with a high incidence of mugging - no-one accuses anyone of victim blaming in that instance. I do recognise that for some unfathomable reason any such advice given to a woman implies victim blaming, but also I think it detracts from some very valuable work that should be done to address WHY certain groups of women ARE more likely to be raped, and what we as parents and society as a whole can do about that.

It's an uncomfortable feeling that with such a debate re prevent/should/blame/precautions etc here, that men who rape would take a bit of comfort from this?

Nobody ever argues that a burglar was confused and thought he was supposed to take the tv because somebody left a window open.

If a man gets beaten up nobody argues that perhaps he could have taken steps to look a bit less vulnerable by going to the gym.

On the other hand, if a woman is dressed a certain way or has drunk a bit it is, in a court of law, apparently reasonable to suggest that she was 'asking for it'.

That is why victim blaming is rightly such an issue when people talk about rape.

If a man gets beaten up, people ask if he was doing anything to provoke it.

merrymouse Men who are attacked are sometimes blamed for their choice of route, not getting a taxi, and the rest of it, and it's as wrong as blaming a rape victim. All crime is always and exclusively the fault of the perpetrator.

Everyone else on this thread - I admire your persistence. Back at you, MEOD!

Andrewofgg In that case, I apologise! I didn't see anyone else use it, so I must have missed it.

There are some subjects on which I don't mind giving offence but rape is not one of them. Please believe me. The view I take is clear enough from my posts. I blame rapists and only rapists for rape. I do get that from your posts, it was just those two words that didn't sit well.