To have no idea how to explain to my 9 year old DD what The Rapist Ched Evans did

[Hoppinggreen]

DD has obviously picked up some snippets about this and has asked what happened. She does know about sex but we haven't discussed what rape is and I don't know his to explain why the victim went to the hotel and what went on from there. I don't want to victim blame but I do want to perhaps talk to her about personal safety.
I also want to make the point that what The Rapist and his apologists are doing now is wrong and how Jessica Ennis ( who she worships) has done a great thing by condemning Sheffield utds actions.
Any suggestions?

But Lougle, we can't make such a reduction without a cost elsewhere, a restriction of some kind.

I could make cars much safer by making them heavier - but then they'd be less fuel efficient and more expensive.

I could prevent my house being burgled by never leaving it.

I could reduce my risk of car accident by never visiting my parents.

I could always take a taxi home - but it would cost me more to go out, so I would socialise less.

yes but 10% of stranger rapes is not the same as 10% involving women drinking and behaving in ways Lugle and others feel makes them at risk - it's doesn't give any more info than 10%

In this case would argue 'stranger' is not 100% accurate since it was facilitated by a man she felt she knew enough to trust and go back to a hotel room with

True, ghosty.

A survey of 986 Scots (TNS System Three survey (February 2008) – TNS System Three survey of 986 Scots for the Scottish Government) found that:

24% think a woman can be at least partly responsible if she is drunk at the time of the attack
27% thought that a woman bore some responsibility if she wore revealing clothing
29% say there should be some burden of responsibility for rape if the woman is flirting
15% think rape can be the woman's fault if she is known to have had many sexual partners
Amnesty International UK research (Amnesty International Report on attitudes to sexual assault in the UK (2005) (www.amnesty.org.uk) found that:

34% of people thought that a woman was fully or partially responsible for being raped if she behaved in a ‘flirtatious’ manner
30% of people thought that a woman was fully or partially responsible for being raped if she was drunk
26% of people thought that a woman was fully or partially responsible for being raped if she was wearing ‘sexy or revealing’ clothing
22% of people thought that a woman was fully or partially responsible for being raped if she has had many sexual partners

We all take risks all the time. It's part of life.

If I'd been mugged and it was revealed that I'd been walking down the street with £500 in my hand, you'd have a bit less sympathy than if I'd parked my car right outside the bank and had the money concealed in my coat at the time.

Some behaviour puts you more at risk of being attacked by a stranger.

It is a known fact that some women are ideal targets for DV. On the relationships board, a woman may say 'why is it that all the men in my life are violent?' People say 'do the freedom course - it's probably not a coincidence. You probably attract them and you need to change your thinking/behaviour to free you from this sort of man. '

Why is it so hard to consider that some behaviour attracts the attention of rapists?

because all and any behaviour could 'attract the attention of rapists' so unless the solution is for women to cease to exist (and men) you can't do one or 2 things that will reduce the risk - the only thing you can do is hope you don't get raped

I think it would be clearer if you give us examples of this behaviour you think attracts rapists

again baring in mind the two thirds of rapes involve no 'drinking' and the majority happen in the home and are perpetrated by people women know

Lougle, there is a huge difference between seeing warning flags in long term relationships and taking or not taking a short cut and suffering a stranger rape.

So I am as likely to be raped when doing my shopping in a busy supermarket aisle in broad daylight as I am when leaving a night club on my own after a few too many and walking down a poorly lit street? Is that so?

So I am as likely to be raped when doing my shopping in a busy supermarket aisle in broad daylight as I am when leaving a night club on my own after a few too many and walking down a poorly lit street?

Rape risk factor:

(a) supermarket aisle - negligible and definitely not in Waitrose;

(b) tottering home drunk from club - possible but probably more likely to trip and bash your face in or choke on your own vomit. Though that is preferable to choking on someone else's vomit;

(c) being raped by someone you know. Really very likely indeed.

wow you took THAT from my post !!!

well I agree 100% with limited and I am not sure if you are deliberately missing the point

1. this 10% can you show me a link to show that 100% of stranger rapes happened after dark to drunk women and men

1. What behaviour do YOU think is risky (you seem to be unable to say but I am guessing it's 'being drunk' )

1. How does that tally up with the FACT that 2 3rds of raped women haven't had a drink

unless your rape 'prevention' message is only to go out to supermarkets, in day light

limited you say that being raped by someone you know is 'really very likely indeed'. Yet the ONS report linked to on the rape crisis site says:

"Around one in twenty females (aged 16 to 59) reported being a victim of a most serious sexual offence since the age of 16. Extending this to include other sexual offences such as sexual threats, unwanted touching or indecent exposure, this increased to one in five females reporting being a victim since the age of 16."

So that puts the current rate of disclosed rape (not reported to police: that figure was around 15% of the disclosed rape figure used by ONS) as one in twenty in the 16-59 age group.

So 5%. That means that I'm really, really very unlikely to be raped by any man.

yet this bit of the report clearly contradicts you theory that rapes happen on dark streets to drunk women...

The ‘myth of the safe home’ is well established in the
literature surrounding violence against women. Evidence
from the current study confirms that women are far more
likely to be sexually victimised in their own home than any
other location (Figure 4)

It's not my theory at all.

one in twenty females (aged 16 to 59) reported being a victim of a most serious sexual offence

How does that contradict what I said about rape lougle ?

lougle so after all your advice your daughter does get raped after consuming alcohol.

Would you then say how many times have we had the discussion about keeping yourself safe, how could you have been so stupid to walk home on your own, or would you say to her it's not your fault love and give her all your support.

Sorry, my post was to show that although you don't mean to be victim blaming, significant minorities surveyed use some of the same factors as factors which blame victims.

No I wouldn't say she was at fault. The fault lies with the rapist each and every time.

I think there is a difference between recognising that a woman is more vulnerable in certain situations and blaming a woman who, in that situation, has a crime committed against her.

An example might be 'unprotected sex leaves you vulnerable to STIs'. That doesn't mean that you would necessarily think that anyone who contracted an STI deserved it, had it coming, had only themselves to blame because they were warned, etc.

so you still think that being drunk is the risk - why do more sober women get raped?

NB I am having to guess this since my cloak of invisibility is working too well

Lougle, again the STI analogy doesn't work because unless we are talking about someone deliberately infecting another (in which case he/she will probably try and remove the condom surreptitiously) - transmitting STIs is unwitting whilst rape is intentional.

Ghostly statistically more sober women are raped is because a) most perpetrators are partners and b) most women are sober most of the time.

If you want to use statistics in that way do it accurately. You'd need to extrapolate the number of hours a women is drunk per week vs the number of hours she is sober. Assuming she is sober at least 66% of the time then the statistics actually do support the fact that bring drunk is more of a risk than being sober. Obviously this doesNOT make it her fault. Just to be clear.

I think that being very drunk makes you more vulnerable. If two women were identical in all things physical and mental, in identical situations and one was very drunk and the other was sober, I think the sober woman would fare better. Although I acknowledge that it's possible that if a rapist was also inclined to physical attack or even murder, the very drunk woman may fare better if she was so drunk that she couldn't fight her attacker.

I'm not saying it is the risk. I am saying it is a risk in some situations.

I'm lucky. I live in a very small council estate in a village with a very low crime rate within a local area with very low crime rate. I live a very quiet life, socially. By that I mean that I've never been clubbing (well I stepped into a club for 10 minutes with some work colleagues once), I'm teetotal because I can't stand the taste of any alcoholic drinks. If (rarely) I travel on public transport I am always aware of my surroundings. Even sitting in a local shopping mall's Costa Coffee seating, although I was studying, I was keeping an awareness of movement around me. I always carry a phone. I always tell someone (DH mainly) where I am going, how long I expect to be and when I can be expected back. I always get my car keys out in a lit area before heading for my car. I don't wear heels (ankles turn too easily).

As regards the 'someone you know' bit, I met DH 3 years before we dated, then married him 3 years after that. You can't know someone completely but in the 18 years I have known him he has never shown any tendency towards harming anyone in any way. I never invite a man into my home unless I am with someone, (barring repair men).

I'm not saying I can prevent being raped. Who knows, I could be raped tomorrow. But if I am, I'll know that I did everything I could think of to protect myself from it.