AIBU to be very pleased that Sheffield Utd have recognised that the rapist Ched Evans is toxic

[WeirdCatLady]

Very good news.

Good to see some sense being shown (finally).

The rapist Ched Evans will not be signed by Sheffield United because of the 'toxic' reaction to their (stupid) plan.

I wish he had done that sashh, it would have been a lot better all round.

Unfortunately I think he's clinging to the possibility of being completely redeemed and so can't be seen to show any signs of potential guilt or repentance. Spectacular fail on the part of his legal team there, I think, as I presume they're the ones who advised him to admit nothing.

What's with the football supporter bashing? Every football supporter I've spoken to thinks the man is a scumbag. My 19 year old son signed a petition against him. Our local club forum is totally against him. Football fans are talking about boycotting away matches at Sheffield United. Do all the football haters actually know any football fans or are they simply buying into the stereotype?

Oh and the last time I was on a very overcrowded train with a bunch of drunk and lairy young male supporters, they were the first ones to give up their seats to me and my children, and warned each other about bad language in front of the kids without me needing to say a word.

Yes, but isn't that it Sashh? He still doesn't believe it was wrong and maybe there are still young men who agree with him but they do all now know what a possible consequence for them is.

It probably is a bit much to expect him to be fronting the education campaign but that doesn't mean there can't be one.

I hesitate to say this but is there no chance at all of him winning his appeal? Presumably he expects that there is and he's working with a legal team on it? People who should know what they're doing?

"They imply that Ched Evans is essentially just a vile person, rather than a normal man who could and should have known that his actions were wrong."

I think if he were a normal man who could and should have known his actions were wrong, but didn't, then he would have been utterly ashamed of himself to have realised what he did, and one would hope rather horrified.

But he's not, is he. He still maintains that the worst aspect of what he did was that he was unfaithful to his girlfriend; he has no shame, no compassion for his victim and accepts no responsibility for his actions. THAT is what makes him vile and unforgivable, more than the inital crime, IMO.

"worst aspect of what he did was that he was unfaithful to his girlfriend"

I keep coming back to thins and what is the father thinking? Even if that were the worst of it, isn't that enough, from the father's POV.

I have a question. His supporters claim that his victim was tweeting about a compensation payout while in court and has tweeted since bragging about having sex with ched.

How do they a) know who she is to follow her on twitter and b) know that the account is genuine.

It just seems like his supporters will stoop to all new lows to try and discredit his victim whilst also maintaining that she never reported a rape in the first place.

But it's possible that's he's backed himself into a corner, thumbwitch; many people will refuse to admit any form of guilt, even when they're caught bang to rights and confronted and stand there sweating, red-faced, tripping over their words, giving off every 'I am not being truthful' tell you can name. You KNOW they're guilty, they know that you know, and yet they simply can't bring themselves to admit fault.

I imagine that denial reflex must be even harder to overcome when you've got a team of publicists and international attention on you, as you'll make others 'look bad' too if you back down and admit guilt.

If he does actually, honestly, to the depths of his soul think that he's done nothing wrong then yes, he is truly an awful person. I'm saying that we can't know for sure in this situation and that it would be human nature (sadly) for him to maintain a fervent denial even if he does admit it within.

None of this makes any difference to the victim of course, poor woman.

Yes Thumbwitch. Normal men don't react to a text saying 'got a bird' by diverting their taxi,getting a key to the hotel room his mate is in then asking 'mind if I have a go'.

The language used by both men shows clear lack of respect for women. And he wasn't invited into the room. A normal person would knock.

His friends and family do nothing to convince me that he is a misunderstood nice guy as their tweets about his victim have been vile.

Plump - that's a little ridiculous though, as he admitted what he'd done. He's been convicted for rape on the basis of his admission of what he's done. He now realises it was illegal, what he did. And he STILL doesn't think it was WRONG, despite it being illegal and him now having a criminal record.

That's not denial, that's fucking massive arrogance.

Isn't it likely his legal people are telling him he needs to keep protesting his innocence though?

Who are his Lawyers BTW?

So basically you have one small group of people who have quite socially unacceptable views on how society operates, who simply do not have the capacity to understand more widespread social condemnation of their actions, including their attempts to normalise vile crimes such as rape.

In their distorted world, a woman going to a hotel room with a man must be willing to provide free sex and to put up and shut up afterwards.

Personally, I don't live in that world and I imagine very few people do. Its very "niche" and that's a polite way of putting it. I'm well educated, I have a good job and have done well, and I've never really mixed with criminals and those who get by with bribes and backhanders.

Society simply doesn't work if you let the small niche group such as described above make rules to except them from wider rules of society as a whole, such as crime. Otherwise we would end up living in a society similar to some at the moment in the Middle East.

Imagine if you had another type of repugnant behaviour - e.g. something out of horror books like cannibals killing and eating their victims, and then saying it was their own fault for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It just doesn't make sense to excuse and normalise that behaviour, because it causes too much harm to society as a whole just to make special cases for certain individuals who think they can buy justice.

I think we also have to look at why and how someone like Massey has made so much money, how much rule breaking he has got away with to get there, because obviously someone with that mindset wouldn't thrive if the rules that apply to everyone were applied to him and his businesses.

The appeal is actually going to be a very important case, not lest because of the notoriety. If Evans is let off, UK law is going to be interpreted as permitting drunken women to be raped without penalty and I hardly think that is going to happen.

I also think the victim should get legal aid to sue for damages and for libel.

Is there any actual new evidence though?

Isn't the appeal based on those tweets of questionable origin, about the victim 'winning big'? Those tweets, assuming that they are genuine, which is a very big if, were sent after the rape, IIRC, so what do they have to do with what happened that night? If he is trying to argue that she planned the whole thing in advance for money- how could she have known that Ched would divert his taxi and come back to the hotel? She went back to the hotel with McDonald, not Ched.

An appeal surely can't be based on the fact that the person convicted simply does not agree with the verdict?

Do all the football haters actually know any football fans or are they simply buying into the stereotype?
I'm speaking from experience. I was on a train into London, with a crowd of young male supporters going home after a match. They were eyeing up the women in the carriage in a very unpleasant way, and making comments that were quite audible to some of us. There were also racist comments.
I would very much hope that they were a minority, but they certainly exist.

Well CE could hardly deny having sex with an unconscious woman could he? His friends had filmed him doing it. From what I have read, the girl didn't even know he had done it; she actually complained to the police about the other guy drugging her. It was only when the police investigated the other guy's phone that they realised CE had raped her.

Sally. Well that's Southerners for you.

Except I wouldn't say that because it would be a ridiculously generalised observation, to condemn the whole of a group, for the actions of a few.

Ah yes, the usual rape case requirement of the victim having to behave perfectly, a bit like a Victorian handmaiden...

CE's lawyers are doing an excellent job of making money out of their client. Whilst obviously acting in the best interests of that client in pursuing all possible avenues of appeal.

Can anyone enlighten me as to how on earth Massey made so much money with such terrible business judgment?

"they were the first ones to give up their seats to me and my children, and warned each other about bad language in front of the kids without me needing to say a word."

I suppose it would also be it would be a ridiculously generalised observation, to praise the whole of a group, for the actions of a few.

The language used by both men shows clear lack of respect for women. And he wasn't invited into the room. A normal person would knock.

Actually, a normal person wouldn't be at the hotel in the first place!

But it's a good point - CE went to that hotel room completely uninvited by a woman he had never met. He had no idea who she was, or what sort of state she was in (and lets face it it was like 4am after a night in Rhyl). Hell he didnt even know if he was going to find her sexually attractive (and this is very telling really as it shows that it was nothing to do wit secual pleasure for him, just power and humiliation.) He had 1-2 minutes between entering the room and penetrating her - not really enough time to assess any of the above.

He had already made the decision that he was going to have sex with her.

And lets not forget that his brothers and his mates had also made their way to he hotel window to fucking try and film it (I have never found out how on earth they knew this was going on).

Those actions make it pretty easy to believe that he was always going to have sex with that girl, whatever scenario lay behind that door.

I agree that the normality with which this has been discussed by Ched's camp is also astonishing, as if it were just a normal Saturday night out in Rhyl that just 'went wrong' or something - THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOUR PEOPLE!

If the victim planned it then why didn't she report a rape the next day?

That line of defense makes no sence as it replies on a third party to guess a rape happened. If you were after money it's surely far more likely that you would make the rape claim yourself.

I didn't realise the appeal was based on the tweets. So according to Ched's supporters, the victim planned it in advance, was clever enough to give the police enough info that they prosecuted for rape without her ever accusing anyone and then was stupid enough to reveal the plan on a public forum?

I have to say, I have googled to try and find out what Massey does. To make absolutely sure I don't spend any of my money with this odious man. Let's hope other people have the same idea, since financial considerations are all these rape apologists seem to understand.

Ched's supporters are an amorphous group with no coherent argument.

The tweets story appears to be an attempt to undermine and discredit the victim. The story is not relevant to the crime, having occurred long afterwards.

I agree that the normality with which this has been discussed by Ched's camp is also astonishing, as if it were just a normal Saturday night out in Rhyl that just 'went wrong' or something - THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOUR PEOPLE!

They seem to be totally dysfunctional. And then to misjudge things so badly in the aftermath by making pretty much the whole of the UK aware of how revolting their personal preferences and habits are.

Piglet I have gone to football matches for years. DH and his mates, DS and his mates, are all football supporters. I know a lot of football supporters, and the very vast majority of them are decent people. I am not basing my observations on one incident.

Have to say that it's only MN that has made me so aware of just how awful this case is.

Previously, having not followed it in the media at all, I had assumed it was "just" a question of a young drunk woman in a footballer's bed being incapable of giving consent.

And yet his FIL knows all this about his prospective SIL.....