MIL - I've really no idea why she was so upset about this?

[MyballsareSandy]

My 13 year old DDs go from school to the in laws every Wed, have dinner there and DH collects them. They don't particularly like doing this as they are old enough to go home alone, until me and DH get home from work, which we allow on other days. It's just basically to keep in touch with their grandparents, and usually the GPs love it (I think!).

Anyway, yesterday DH arrives at his parents to find his mum in floods of tears, and his dad having stern words with DD2. Apparently she was doodling in a notebook and wrote "Nan smells of fart" . Bit childish at 13, but really is it worth the drama that followed, I just don't get it.

DD doesn't want to go there anymore, she can't understand the reaction either and would much rather just go home after school, which I'm tempted to say yes to.

My vile comments as you put it were that some 13 year olds have babies and some have intercourse. That's it! Purely supporting my proposition that a 13 year old is old enough to know better and to know right from wrong. After all the law recognises that 10 years olds are criminally responsible for their actions precisely because they know at that young age right from wrong.

From that you accused me of advocating child abuse and older men abusing young girls. Something I find as repulsive as anyone and I found defamatory in the legal sense. But we do live in a sexualised society and the 21st century and sadly very young girls are making decisions to have sex. That is not relevant to the OPs post as such but refutes the apologists who are saying 'she's just a child' when the majority of posters would not accept this from a 6 year old.

FYI
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7186620/Primary-schoolgirls-getting-pregnant-aged-10.html

NoMary your teenage sex tangent is very odd - are you claiming that being sexually active is a sign of maturity ? A sign of responsibility? It makes no sense to claim that because girls of 10 can get pregnant they are not children or are "old enough to know better" - if they were responsible and old enough to know better they wouldn't be getting pregnant at 13 (except in the cases of abuse) or breaking the law to have illegal underage sex surely? Your logic is very warped.

maryz - mostly I agree with what you post but not this time - I really don't think the OP should send her DD2 to her grandparents without the support of her sister. I see where you're coming from but I doubt the grandmother is going to change her opinions after looking after them both for 13y; so rather than allowing DD2 to "come into her own", it's more likely to just leave her more exposed and with no back up. :(

It was a fucking notebook not a diary or journal.

Sorry that was meant to sound more exasperated than angry!

So, OP, what does your DH think of it all and if your FiL is usually on DD's side, why was he so cross?

I think that this situation needs to be looked at as two separate situations:

1. Writing nasty messages about people is not on. Doesn't matter if it's a parent, grandparent, teacher or another student. Would you have the same reaction if she had written it about you own mother, not your MIL? What if you got a call from the school saying she had been writing it about another student? She needs to learn this is not appropriate behaviour and needs to apologise.

2. The relationship with the grandparent. Obviously they rub each other the wrong way at times, and if MIL behaviour truly is awful, then that needs to be addressed. If she doesn't enjoy the visits, then she should be allowed to reduce the frequency, but I think she should make the effort, say once per month. Sometimes we do things we don't always want to do, just because it is the right thing to do.

Honestly! What an over-reaction. Definitely precious.

If my DSS had written that about me, I would have taken it as a compliment.

I haven't had time to RTFT, but I don't think anyone can say why the GM reacted as she did - who knows what may had led into it in terms of her current mental or physical health, and the context of her relationship with her GC. People can be hurt and upset, sometimes by little things. I could not imagine writing something so juvenile at 13, nor could I imagine ever writing anything like that about my DGPs. Given that she had done it (and I'd wonder why) the 13 yr old should certainly have been extremely distressed to think that something she had done had upset her grandmother, and be desperate to reassure her of her love and respect. I think it is very sad if they begrudge a visit to their GPs, who sound as if they have been very supportive. At 13 she needs to work on empathy ....forget whether it was an overreaction, that is irrelevant. Relevant = a dear family member is upset and saddened, how do I (dd) make this right? Relevant for OP = has your daughter's reaction to this whole incident flagged up problems she has in empathising/communicating with and respecting people?

If either of my DGMs had been in tears, for any reason, I would have been beside myself and not wanted to leave the house till I had comforted and helped them. But then by 13 I had lost a parent, and was soon to lose first one DGM and then by 16, my other DGM. I never met my DGFs, they died before I was born. So maybe I had a little more idea that your dd, OP, about what is important and what she is taking for granted. Or perhaps she just isn't a very sensitive girl.

Temp you've definitely missed some major updates from the OP. The GM is mean to the 13yo. I doubt the girl would be that worried about upsetting the GM except that it got her into trouble.

NoMary
I would think the fact that 13yos are having sex and getting pregnant etc only goes to show that they don't know better.

The most common reason for a thirteen year old having sex would mean that they were raped.
That does not make them an adult.
It makes them a victim of rape.
Because you cant consent to sex under the age of 16.
So it is in poor taste to suggest that because some 13 yo are being raped (because that is what it is) then being 13 yo means you are not a child.
Having sex does not make you an adult.

Very few of the 13 yo girls "having sex" are doing so with boys of the same age. Most of the sexual contact with girls of at age is by males over 16.
So that is rape.

Sorry for derailing

13 years olds are making decisions every day, many of them in a very grown up fashion. They can debate politics as was proven in the Scottish referendum, read classics, do long division, look after themselves in an empty house after school, as well as have romantic associations with school age boys. All of which indicates my assertion that a 13 year old should empathise with a grandmother and not declare she smells.

Oh of course, that is until the OP decides to ship her MIL off to the Old Folks Farm! (A phrase used by one of the posters here and indicating a serious lack of respect)

NoMary I think you're twisting the words of a pp (The old folks home stuff) to make your own point. I don't believe that your interpretation reflects the tone of that poster's comment.

And bla bla bla to the other stuff. So what? It was a thoughtless thing to write, given it could have been (and was) seen by the GM. It just really was not worthy of "floods of tears" or the degree of admonishment levelled at the girl here by some posters.

Besides, you are missing the point about the disapproval of the sexual reference. Which is a shame imho.

Get it right. Old Folks Farm. Farm?

I'm sorry you disapprove of a reference to 13 year olds having consensual sex with their 15 year old boyfriends (none of which I condone or approve of as has been suggested) but we don't all live in fluffy bunny lala land where bad stuff doesn't happen.

Repeat. 13 year olds have a responsibility to act in an empathetic way to their grandparents. Which is my only 'point' despite desperate attempts to pervert what I have actually said.

The whole situation could have been avoided if the OP had a) listened to her dds requests to not go to Grans every week and B) raised her child to be polite, respectful and mature.

I have four kids, one not NT and none of them would be so immature!! I would die of shame if my teenager was still using 7 year old language and insults.

I have no illusions about a fluffy bunny world.
Which is why I can't get in a state about a 13 yo writing "nan smells of farts" in her notebook.

ok, so I don't understand how a parent/gp can prefer one child/gc of theirs over another, but i'm still intrigued as to how on earth this woman can prefer one TWIN gd over the other.

I hope you end the weekday agreement from now on.

Major drip feed of course. No mention of MIL preferring one child over the other or that said DD was 'difficult'. Nice euphemism for a child lacking in empathy, rude and hurtful who will tell a GM she smells.

I agree totally. I would have understood my difficult child did not like to visit her nan and not force her too. Result happy DD and happy GM. Probably a happier twin too.

Smells of fart. Hmmm, if that were a noticeable behavioural incident in my 13yr old's repertoire, I'd be thanking my lucky stars. But maybe that's because my teenager is a terror who unlearnt all their manners at 12, despite my protestations.

Goodness me, this is still going strong .
Perhaps it should have been in relationships rather than AIBU.

There are too many questions to reply to all, so apologies. But quickly:

DH thinks it's a massive over reaction by his mum, but does think DD should apologise. He grew up with her highly strung emotional outbursts so they have very little effect on him now tbh. He thinks FIlL got involved to keep the peace with his mum.

We have both talked to DD about 'fart gate' (love that from an earlier post). She feels strongly that she shouldn't apologise as she believes the tears were crocodile tears, and feels it was an over reaction. She can't understand how MiL and Fil can use toilet humour yet she can't. She did understand that in this case it was different as it was aimed personally.

DD1, who is far more emotionally intelligent and empathetic than DD2, is also a bit bewildered by it all. They have both said they'll continue with the wed trips but perhaps not every week. I haven't stopped contact with MiL in the past despite her unequal treatment, as it isn't constant. My DDs have gained a lot from their time with their GPs, I just pick her up on things when I hear it, so do the DDs.

DD is immature and we are going to work on that with her, and with her empathy and understanding, as we have done in the past. She doesn't have special needs, she's just immature for her age and has some quirky traits, but she is a lovely kid generally and I'm extremely proud of her most of the time. We all make silly mistakes, esp in our teens, I still do now and I'm nearly 50.

If this is the worse she does in her teens then I will be a very lucky mum!

She's toxic. We do duty visits only with my MIL because of this type of behaviour; I can't see how DS will benefit from having much to do with her. I certainly wouldn't insist on visits.

OP, I seem to remember you posting about this relationship on a previous occasion; it seemed then that you were upset that DD was a scapegoat, is this still the case?