MIL - I've really no idea why she was so upset about this?

[MyballsareSandy]

My 13 year old DDs go from school to the in laws every Wed, have dinner there and DH collects them. They don't particularly like doing this as they are old enough to go home alone, until me and DH get home from work, which we allow on other days. It's just basically to keep in touch with their grandparents, and usually the GPs love it (I think!).

Anyway, yesterday DH arrives at his parents to find his mum in floods of tears, and his dad having stern words with DD2. Apparently she was doodling in a notebook and wrote "Nan smells of fart" . Bit childish at 13, but really is it worth the drama that followed, I just don't get it.

DD doesn't want to go there anymore, she can't understand the reaction either and would much rather just go home after school, which I'm tempted to say yes to.

What is really sad is that a 13 yo girl is being demonised for doodling"nan smells of fart".
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the response would be very different if the kid were a boy.
"Vile"
"Mortifying"
justification for laborious punishment???

I would try to help the girl understand why someone would be upset, and have her apologise. But the GMs response was OTT and yes, possibly a bit aggressive as a pp described.

Many responses are completely out of proportion with the misdemeanour.

And then I guess I can expect a tirade of threats that my own DCs will turn out to be unmanageable miscreants with no empathy.

ashamed of her
Ashamed of her ???.?????
FFs!

Haven't read the thread as there are 13 pages! But what was your daughter's reaction to your response when you found out? Just interested as a relatively new parent who will likely have to deal with this in a few years
Agree, your MILs reaction was a little OTT by 'normal' standards and if my child had written that about me, personally I would have laughed (if done as tongue in cheek joke) but asked here hat her problem was if she had done it out of anger or malice.
Has she apologised yet? Privileges lost? Sometimes I find with kids (am a teacher but younger than 13!) that time and space is good form hem to realise that actually they were a bit stupid and despite the OTT reaction, did hurt somone 's feelings.

Might be an idea to find out if anything else is upsetting MIL though as the reaction is a bit 'odd'.

If the worst my teens do is use the word "fart" in a private notebook...... then I'll be very happy to have such low expectations of them.

I nominate this thread for Classics. It's getting sillier by the post.

sash yes you are probably totally 'off'.

I do wonder if other things are going on with the in laws as it is out of character. As I've said before, MIL relationship with DD2 has been rocky at times, she finds DD hard work and doesn't 'get' her. DD is still very literal for her age, very black and white about everything, no grey in her world. Yet MIL has never made any allowances for this, just exclaimed out loudly on numerous occasions "she can be very odd, do you think you should get her tested for special needs", within earshot of DD. So my default is to protect DD2 and stick up for her in MILs presence, possibly not always fairly, as in this case, maybe!

So this has obviously coloured their relationship, understandably. DD1 is the golden child in MILs eyes, even in the tone of her voice when she is talking to DD1, but despite many conversations over the years, MIL hasn't changed. She ends up crying and saying she can't believe what she's hearing, as she couldn't possibly love them more than she does, and equally blah blah.

For these reasons I'm glad the contact with the in laws has been vastly reduced, as I don't think it's healthy.

Perhaps this is a massive drip feed, but I didn't think it was relevant when I started this thread. Reading this back, it's is hugely relevant.

FIL is a lovely man who does 'get' DD2, very well and has had amazing patience and understanding with her over the years.

Manipulative.
Vey annoying.

Well, it is a bit of a drip feed, OP. I think it does change the situation if your DD has been made to feel like the less favoured GC for years, & if her GM has previously made insensitive remarks about her, in her hearing. It sounds like it's a difficult relationship generally, & that DD feels resentful about a lot more than just having to spend her free time going round there once a week.

From the info. in the OP it sounded more like DD just couldn't be arsed with having to go, for typical teenage reasons - ie. finding it a bit boring - & that she may have let her GM see the doodle in a quite nasty & manipulative attempt to get the arrangement stopped.

It sounds as if your MIL doesn't have very much self-awareness about her favouritism - & I'm assuming your DH sees it too? - & she was probably still genuinely upset at the evidence that her GD doesn't like her very much. So I still think it's a good idea to get DD to apologise, but I think I would definitely be reviewing the arrangements in the New Year. Would DD2 be able to go home on her own if DD1 still wanted to go to her nan's?

I think you should send your daughter to american boot camp where she can chop wood, dig latrines and work from 6am to 10pm getting half an hour for lunch.

Otherwise you risk her growing up into a horrible woman.

Ah... adults who resort to tears at any time events or conversations aren't going their way... From your last post Sandy it sounds as if the time your DD2 spends at hand might be quite unpleasant, knot just dull! I wonder what nan says to dd2 or about dd2 to film or dd1 when you are not there!

from the op it sounded more like DD just couldn't be arsed with having to go .... And that she may have let her Gm see the doodle in a quite nasty and manipulative attempt to get the arrangement stopped

I strongly disagree. This is what some posters projected onto the information they were given. There was really no reason to suspect that from the OP.
If MiL is resorting to crying and "disbelief" when challenged on her behaviour and attitude towards DGD it suggests to me that she is the one using "manipulative" behaviour as a defence mechanism when called on her behaviour.

She can be very odd do you think you should get her tested for special needs!!!!!!!!
I don't blame your DD for writing Nan smells of farts.
She got off lightly if you ask me. You do not say such things about your Grandchildren in the first place let alone when they can hear. Disgusting behaviour and as her Mum you have every right to stick up for your child. If a child is hearing that how are they going to feel? They are going to feel like writing Nan smells of farts.
So Nan has a tear when things don't go her way! Your DD could have said to her face she smelt of farts but she wrote it in a book. And Nan had a tear.
I really feel for your DD.

"FIL is a lovely man who does 'get' DD2, very well and has had amazing patience and understanding with her over the years."

Well in that case, doesn't it tell you something if he was the one having stern words with her?

My DD is 7 and if she wrote something rude like that she'd be in serious trouble. Why? Because it is rude and needlessly nasty. at 7 she should understand that. at 13, even more so! How can you not get that?

A sincere apology is needed here. I certainly wouldn't be "rewarding" the DD with giving her her own way and letting her off the hook seeing her grandparents on a Wednesday. She'd be going back next week assuming they want her to. When it's all died down I'd have a calm discussion about maybe cutting the visits down to every other week but not based on this, no way.

They don't particularly like doing this as they are old enough to go home alone, until me and DH get home from work, which we allow on other days.

This was the only reason originally given for why OP's daughter didn't want to go to nan's. They'd rather go home, do their own stuff - ie. they can't really be arsed.

Totally accept that the idea DD wrote the doodle with the aim of manipulating the situation is more speculative. But it does seem a bit daft for her to have let her nan see it, so it was certainly possible that it was deliberate. Still is, for that matter - but in the light of further info., it sounds more like it would be an expression of frustration with her nan's attitude to her, rather than anything more calculating.

Re. MIL, I don't agree that someone crying about something automatically makes them manipulative. That sounds a bit heartless - some people do just cry more easily than others. Certainly the "floods of tears" about the doodle sounds much more likely to reflect MIL's sadness that her GD clearly isn't too keen on her ATM, & possibly MIL's own sensitivity to that. The later example does sound more manipulative, I agree.

She can be very odd do you think you should get her tested for special needs.

That is rude and nasty.

Nan smells of fart

Is cheeky and rude.

What your MIL said was far worse IMHO and I bet there was no repcousons for her. I bet no one had stern words with her about how nasty she was about DD2.

Meerka

I also think some of the ways people are reacting are completely over the top, given that the grandparents were looking after the children three days a week. That moves them from 'cherished, not often seen, be very polite when you do' to actually being childcarers, including perhaps seen like parents, warts and all.

Of course your dd should apologise, but I do think if you are a carer/grandparents, this is different than if they only visited every six months. This might include seeing the children cross, upset, or cheeky/rude on occasions especially after school when they are tired. I would still set the same expectations- that these things are unacceptable and I would discipline appropriately for them (so time off computer for rudeness in our house) but I wouldn't be shocked they ever occurred.

It sounds like everyone could do with a break from it all, this afterschool duty visit isn't working for DD2 or the grandparents I don't think, I also feel sorry for your dd that she is so obviously not favoured and is seen as the 'difficult' one, essentially she has just lived up to her title, albeit in a very minor way.

"I certainly wouldn't be letting her off the hook seeing her grandparents on a Wednesday"

This is just such a strange and counterproductive attitude. Why would you want to try and force them to spend time together when clearly neither of them are enjoying it currently? What on Earth do you think that's going to achieve?

You wouldn't force yourself as an adult to spend time with relatives or in-laws that you didn't get along with- and if you did you'd be directed to the FOG threads on Relationships.

Children cannot be bored into submission. It just makes them resentful and act silly.

Far better all round to just accept that the situation isn't working any more, and get them to spend time together under other circs. where they'll both actually get something out of it.

Saucy I agree, I also think if I am lucky enough to be a grandparent, I just won't want my grandchildren to come round because they have to or feeling resentful. I'd rather have fewer visits when they genuinely want to come- flexibility about growing up and away teen children is needed for both parent and grandparents!

In your situation - with the new info - I would probably:

Not allow them to go to GPs on Wednesday. (Either of them, sounds unhealthy for both of them.)
Make DD2 apologise - maybe write a note, give a card. Explain why she has to, and get her to try to empathise with GM.

(Oh and just because MIL said it in such a tactless way, I would spend 5-10 mins considering if DD2 could have a SN - especially as there is evidence for it possibly being in the family - MIL.)

So your mil has been treating her badly but not badly enough to be sending her there every week from 10 months old? Says a lot more about you then for putting your dd through this 'awful' torture.
Stop making excuses for her because under any circumstance she has been, rude, disrespectful, cheeky and bad. Address that rather than making excuses because you were happy to accept it for the last decade

well i think that the "drip feed" is important in that you know that they are treated differently but have still made them go.

FIL "getting" your second daughter probably doesn't make up for the different treatment that she receives from MIL.

Knowing how MIL treats her, I'm surprised that you didn't stop the the visits asap.

I don't think it excuses her, but it puts a different light on things!

OP read Thumbwitch's post. If your FIL is so patient and understand and he was cross, doesn't that tell you something?

The word fart is irrelevant, it would have been just as rude and hurtful if she had simply written 'Grandma smells'. Your daughter has behaved badly, why is that so hard for you to accept. Are you one of those wet parents who thinks that their children never really do anything wrong?

What shines through here is your attitude to your PILs, which is clearly that they were very very useful while your DCs were small, but now they are of less use to you suddenly the relationship is 'unhealthy'. Such gratitude, and what a lesson to teach your children.