AIBU to think that this country is doing my family no favours?

[TiredOfItAllNow]

I've NC. as it's all a bit personal.

I'm so tired of the struggle to get some decent standard of living in this country.

We are so poor.

We live in a 2 bed council flat, DH works very hard, full time in a non-safe job...he's a decorator.

I work part time because I can't seem to get another job which would work with school and we just can't see how we'd afford any childcare...I was hoping to get a 2nd job which might fit in with my first and with school but it's not happening.

We can barely make ends meet. We never go out anywhere...no days out, all my clothes are 2nd hand and the DCs are always bought in sales or 2nd hand.

Something unexpeced like a school book fair can arse up my finances for two weeks....I know the DC don't HAVE to go to the book fair and buy a book but you tell that to your children who never have a new toy unless it's a special occasion and whose entire library is 2nd hand.

And we work! Why shouldn't we have enough money to buy our children a book!

What's gone wrong that everything is so expensive?

We don't have any luxuries, I'm very good at cooking from scratch and all meals are cheap...we have some kind of meat once a week ffs! Because it's too expensive otherwise.

Some days there's no food other than pasta, flour and basics...I don't buy frozen food much as our firdge is tiny and the frozen compartment just about fits a bag of peas and a box of fishfingers in it.

I read on here about people booking to go to Christmas parks and going shopping for this and that and I just get disheartened.

We have the opportunity to move to Australia next year. DH has been offered a job...I told my sister and she was all "You can't be that poor...you earn alright money"

We don't! She couldn;'t be happy that we had a chance to get out of this horrible, tiny flat...

Yes that's what I thought. I guess it's not a direct subsidy but a rent cap is still an indirect subsidy? Anyway I guess it's a social & economic benefit provided by the Government,so the broad reasoning remains the same.

Surfs one it's nothing to do with the government and two they are set at a fair rent, private rents are inflated. Also nobody " subsidises" the rent they are still profitable just the money is put back into providing housing services not to share holders.

Council is local government; the council is foregoing a profit it could make on the property: ergo council housing = indirect housing subsidy. Surely.

I'd get out if you possibly can, I think that's the dream of a lot of people, but be very careful. There are all sorts of reasons why you might hate it, or hate being lonely, or hate being away from your support network.

I think if you have a good offer to go abroad then I would do it.

DH and I are now in our 50s and have done quite well for ourselves; nice house, fair income, 2 lovely grown-up DCs who have both graduated and are making their way well. Even we are feeling the negative side of life in the UK these days.
Back when we were in our 20s we had the chance to emigrate and didn't because we wanted to stay near family and friends. I don't regret that decision but nor do I feel convinced that here is better. Some friends of ours did go though. They have a great life over there, are really glad they took the plunge, are 100% sure they did the right thing and will never come back.

Go for it and good luck!

Australia is expensive too and there are lots of Australians living exactly as you describe. ..especially if they are in low-skilled/retail work.

nothing to do with the government

Council is government is it not?? If it's not government is it charity run? I was pretty sure they were government run?

private rents are inflated

Not sure what you mean by that - they are market driven surely?

they are set at a fair rent

When I was in London there were people living near me in council flats who had gores views over the canal at Maida Vale and the flats looked pretty smart too. I don't think there's any doubt they were paying significantly less than I was paying a few blocks back. I don't in anyway begrudge the provision of public housing, but I think it's far more reasonable to say that those flats were heavily subsidised than to say those rents were set at a "fair" level. Paying what everyone else pays is "fair" paying much much less is subsidised (rightfully so).

No social rents are "fair " rents- they are calculated on what would be a fair rent to charge a min wage* London based worker as rent. Because the calculation is for a London wage this means in some parts of the country social rents are similar to market rents, so don't help people much. However in London & other expensive parts of the country they are significantly cheaper. Since the formula was set (70s, re ratified in the 80s) market rents have spiralled in expensive areas leaving a huge golf between the 2.

Social rent nowadays is a product which meets Market need, often provided by housing associations (which have charitable status) however I have to agree with the thinking that a council owned property is an indirect subsidy. There is a whole load of history which indicates that.

*they were calculated before min wage was introduced, but that's pretty much what the equivalent is.

The thing that struck me is that if you go you will live in cheap accommodation for a year and save...

What happens after that year when you have to move to more expensive accommodation? Will you still be able to save? How long will your savings last? A serious illness or worse in the family over here could wipe your savings out on flights.

Being heavily supported in your first year makes me wonder if you will get used to that financial situation and then struggle massively to manage when you are paying your way in full. You could end up with a garden, but skint on the opposite side of the world.

You really don't appear to be maximising your opportunities here, your Dh isn't really working full time, and he could earn more. With two children I can't help but wonder why he is working the way you describe when he has a trade and ability to earn far more. A decorator on cash paid, minimum wage, ad hoc work with children when he has the potential to earn far more? It's odd, and doesn't reflect well on your Dh.

Don't you need X amount of thousands in the bank to show you won't be a drain on the Australian govt to emigrate? (I may have dreamt this!) If so, how would you manage that?

There are definitely parts of the country where you would have to wait a week or more to get a decorator in. Is your husband on the Gumtree or similar? Does he have photos of his work? Can he train in other related trades i.e. plumbing, carpentry?

I'm sure he could do all of those things but as a poster able said the op and her H just seem very unambitious. They have been assisted a huge amount by this country but they expect they should have more somehow.

Whilst a decorator is one of those lowest paid trades, it is not a minimum wage job and does have a level of skill.

"Poster above said"

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRude tuition fees have been here for years. I graduated in 2005 & I paid them.

If you are able to get a decorator at less than a week's notice then they arent a very good decorator. Unless they are just starting out and havent built up a customer base and reputation.

Has OP left the thread?

A lot of people questioned how much rent would be charged on a 2 bed social housing flat in cheshire but OP didn't answer. I had a look around and it would seem than rents in (East) Cheshire around around £100-£120 per week.

www.cheshirehomechoice.org.uk/Data/ASPPages/1/43.aspx?&CurrentPage=4

OP isn't entitled to any housing benefit to help with the rent so she and her husband must have an income above whatever the threshold is. I am struggling to understand why she can't afford meat or books or anything nice.
I asked (along with others) if it was debt but the OP didn't answer. Another poster came along and suggested that moving abroad was a good option if they had debt because they could just leave the debt behind, which I think is a shocking attitude. If you borrow money then you do have a moral responsibility to at least try and repay it.

My other thought was about the housing situation in Oz. I wonder if the OP and her family will have a property to themselves or if they are going to move in with the people providing the rental free option. The latter of those is a recipe for disaster IMO.
How will the finances stack up once the initial rent free year is over and the OP had to okay rent alongside school fees, health care plan etc etc?
I think anybody who wants to move abroad should go for it as long as it is for the right reasons and all things have been considered fully.

sophie ,the OP has a pt ,minimum wage job ,there is little hope of her paying back her fees if she had them ,particularly if she emigrates ,therefore she has had a free education to degree level which she has failed to make use of .

Go. Not all parts of Australia are expensive. It's usually family ties that keep us here but if that's not an issue and your life is miserable despite all your hard work, poor living conditions and your children's opportunities are low, I wouldn't hesitate. It's harder when you have lovely family and a good standard of living but in your case, I would go.

I think she may have left the thread as the questions have become more interesting!

I agree that you normally need to wait months not weeks for a decent decorator. We waited 3 months and then paid £2k for a great guy who did the outside of our house, took him a fortnight so not a bad living and he can easily pick and choose which jobs he takes on.

I think if councils broke even or made a profit on council properties surely they would be increasing not decreasing stock?
Its a gov subsidy whether its from council or gov.
As surely all the admin, maintenance, redecoration costs something.
You cant otherwise base rent on how much people can afford to pay lol.
Yes it would be much better if that was all anyone was charged rent. Unfortunately the market forces mean rent goes up to what people are willing to pay even if it means they have 10p left.
Especially as if they dont have enough council houses they must pay whatever landlord charges.

Maybe the DH is on a non work visa.
I sort of think the level of comfort the Op describes would be suitable to leave some motivation to achieve say a house with garden by getting better paid jobs. Though not convinced this is the true living standard.
No matter how much you earn things like gambling, drinking, smoking, drug taking can put a big dent in it.
I was also brought up in a better house than i own. There is no doubt times are not as good for young people, huge working population, degrees worth almost nothing.

Although people started to pay for degrees in 1998 they were still getting grants i think and it was only £1k rising to 3k a few yrs later.
If Op has been going to park 10 yrs its likely she didnt pay anything or up to 3k. Rather than the ridiculous completely wasted 9k.
I wouldnt pay that unless i was going for a job that needs a degree. Which is sad uni is a great experience it just hasnt paid off for me.

I think though if i suspected say coop of discriminating based on having a degree i would be mounting a legal challenge. As just because someone has a degree doesnt mean shopwork isnt the thing they would be most suited to. (As almost anyone can go now)

Agreed re decorator. I have booked ours for March next year, booked him months ago. It will be circa £2k for just over a weeks work (he does buy the materials and has an apprentice)

I wonder if there are grants though for start up costs for such an enterprise? In the scheme of things, I would have thought this is a (relatively) inexpensive business to start? I say this in the context that DH needed a building, plant, staff, vans etc, not to underestimate the cost of a start up.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRude tuition fees have been here for years. I graduated in 2005 & I paid them

Yes, but you paid £1k per year tuition fees. Which, really, is sweet fuck all.

My husband's australian and there's no way he'd move us back. We have a far higher quality of life here! He is v.outdoorsy and enjoys not having to commute to get out of a huge city to go walking, loves our footpath network, coutnryside, coast, all so easily accessible!

Food is more expensive in Oz, healthcare, housing etc. I just can't see how anyone could move there and it be cheaper. We often have british people ask us why we dont move - was there a golden erea when the pound was good and everyone moved over and bought mansions with pools or something?

Our standard of living has certainly got harder over the last 10 years, but is still seriously better when compared, like for like, with Australia!

The one bed flat in central london is a bit of an anomaly. For that price they have the choice of a 4 bed house further out but prefer to live in the centre of london (and fair enough) so some of the most expensive property in the UK.

OP - why dont you list a monthly income/outgoings and perhaps mn can help see where it is going wrong. The money just doesnt seem to add up?

Geraldthegiraffe yes yes yes. I am constantly astonished by how people see Oz as literally the land of Oz. There was a period mid nineties where the pound got you around $2.70 and you could get a mansion in Queensland for the price of a 2 bed flat in London. But those days are long since gone. And being swayed by these fabulous wages - well, the cost of living is horrendous, even if you are outside of the big cities. People work really long hours too and the day starts around 6.30am for a lot of workers.

I really can't bear it when people blame 'this country'. I've lived in a few different places around the world, including Australia, and I can hand on heart say we don't know we're born here. The NHS is a thing of wonder (for how much longer I do not know), we do catch people when they fall, amazing holiday leave, fairly decent maternity pay and cover, our much maligned state schools are still better than their equivalent in Australia, for example - the list is endless.

No the UK isn't perfect, and some of our best institutions are fast being dismantled, but it's a lot better than we realise.

I would also say that in my experience, people who leave one country for another take the same set of problems with them. For example (I'm not directing this at you OP, just making a general observation) if you were bad at money management beforehand, it's unlikely that will change in a new country. If your marriage was under strain, moving abroad is likely to put it under more pressure, not less. I notice this when I see friends and relatives who have moved abroad - same shit, different country.

its funny how the thread gets interesting and the OP has popped off! I agree with most of the PP.

Your life is really what you make of it. I friend of mine worked for the local council as a Debt Advisor to help people budget on benefits or low incomes. She stuck it out for 6 months but the sense of entitlement was just to much for her, people stating that had to have Sky, or they had to afford fags, or they had to be able to go out a couple of nights a week to enjoy themselves. Take aways seem to be a real area where people just refused to give them up even though each meal was coming in at 30 plus

Two people complained abut her suggesting that they give up the Sky and one women said her DD would be 'picked' on a school if she didnt have the latest trainers.