To be sick of personality disorder being used as an excuse for bad behaviour?

[fluffydressinggown]

I see it all the time on here, people say their partner/friend/family member has behaved badly and someone comes along and says maybe it is a personality disorder.

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour. Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

I think those of you saying that ASD never excuses 'violent' behaviour must have limited experience of the severe end of the spectrum.

My son is severely autistic, non-verbal & comes from a very supportive home (oh how I wish progress was related simply to support). I prefer to describe his behaviour as challenging rather than violent (either way he bruises) but when he is challenging - it's always due to a complete loss of control due to anxiety/panic. He always attacks himself before others but when he does go for us it is not with intent to hurt - it is due to a total loss of control.

I would hope that people experienced in ASD would know enough to realise that you can't really generalise and that the condition named ASD that results in someone being able to get married/live independently/walk down the street alone is a very different condition than the ASD my son has.

Across the spectrum you can of course apply a functional behavuour analysis to difficult behavuour but it's very unlikely the 15 year who is non verbal is behaving in a difficult way just to be an arse.

Whereamigoing - for any difficult behaviour look at the function it is achieving & alter that.

My son's behaviour was appalling for 7 weeks this summer. Extremely difficult. I eventually worked out it was because he had a simple question. When I answered his question (1 sentence) the behaviours went away.

The issue was slightly more complicated in that the reason he wasn't getting his question answered was because he wasn't using his communication aid. and the reason he wasn't using his communication aid was because he had been traumatised by the actions of a service he had dealings with.

So the simple solution is answer the question, the longer one is to support his trauma & support him using his communication aid again.

You can do the same for those wherever they are on the spectrum. - but you have to start with understanding why the behavuour didn't. The 7 weeks I spent not understanding that ds1 was asking me a question hurt (a lot).

Whether you're willing to put up with the behaviour depends. I don't really have any choice - and I try to ensure that those who choose to work with ds1 are well supported, staffed to an appropriate level & not asked to deal with situations they can't cope with.

Seeing this as ironic and comparing us to a TROLL (banned I think now) is really insulting. I have no words

lmfao, comparing you to a troll? I said nothing of the kind. Why are you trying to sensationalise something fairly mundane?

You can be insulted as much as you want by my finding the turn the thread took ironic, but I stand by my words.

Just because someone has a MH diagnosis does not make them incapable of shitty behaviour or incapable of manipulation.

Your kind of extreme reaction is what stops discussions like this in their tracks. Your reaction is just as bad as what the OP in her opening post objects to. And it's ultimately what stops any meaningful dialogue on a very important subject.

If you don't see the irony in that, then sorry I can't help you. From where I am sitting it's two sides of the same coin.

He was just a lazy sod but tried to use bipolar as an excuse for this.

This is exactly what I am talking about. SOME people with a MH diagnosis SOMETIMES use that diagnosis to manipulate.

I don't want you to help me. So it's all good.

I saw the comment. She didn't put all behaviour instantly down to being a wanker. She put one individual's behaviour down to it. One individual you have never met.

The comment about DLA was incredibly ridiculous but ultimately, this is not about whether the person is genuine. You are genuine.

I was not angry because I "want[ed]" to be angry. I was angry because I found your comments offensive. You don't actually have personal copyright on knowing people with ASD, having family members with ASD, or living with family members with ASD. For all I know, I may also have given birth to children with ASD.

I'm sorry you don't give a shiney shite that I found your comments offensive and disablist, just because you had a bad day.

My "extreme reaction" as you put it was to an "extreme situation" made up by a troll.

If my extreme reaction stifled a troll then great. Where's the problem?

Criticising someone for reacting in extreme fashion to someone who was trolling for an extreme reaction is frankly bizarre.and victim blaming.

Next time I will engage in lovely reasoned debate with a rude offensive troll if you like

Tilly she was a troll.

And if you found my comments offensive and disablist then that's how it will have to be.

You are misinterpreting them but really I don't have energy to get into it.

And..dogs was a troll not even talking about a real person.

It's almost funny.

My ex was a total wanker who just happened to have bipolar. The bipolar did not make him a wanker, it was incidental. My father in law is registered blind and is another total wanker, however this has nothing to do with his eye condition.

You are determined to be aggrieved with my comments and take them in a manner I did not intend and I don't have the energy to try to convince you otherwise.

And I don't really care what you think of me.

So think I am a terrible disablist witch if you want. I am not.

If you want to get into offence then I am offended because you said I think people with ASD are lobotomised robots from science fiction, because I don't.

My brain doesn't have energy to think up the words to convince you of my point. So you will hAve to stay aggrieved. Bottom line.

I didn't agree with the now deleted comment, but on the big scale of things it was on the mild side of offensive MN posts. I really don't get why you are making it out to be so extreme or having such an extreme reaction to it. She mentioned her experience with one person. And if that poster is now the worst of MN trolls, then this is a very fortunate forum, she's the least un-trolly troll I have come across on MN.

Ok well I thought it was less mild.

Guess what..people have different opinions

Oh, fgs.

I know you have a hard life.

But don't put words in my mouth.

I said this, and I will say it again and again, and again: "Sometimes it is. But, sometimes, it isn't. People with ASDs actually have personalities. Having an ASD is not synonymous with having a lobotomy in a 70s sci-fi novel."

I didn't pretend to read your mind. Whatever you are thinking, you may start thinking differently in 10-15 years time after greater personal experience associating with a wide range of teens with ASD at a similar place in the spectrum.

Or do you think Elliot Rodgers couldn't help it? I'm assuming not?

Lemon..you can think what you like of me too. I really don't care.

Off to.play with DD

Fanjo I think people understand you loud and clear. It is just that certain individuals who use MN prefer to get outraged and give people a flaming as it is entertaining for them. What is the point in a rational debate when you can have a cheap pop at someone?

Why don't we focus on more positive examples of ASD such as Bill Gates?

I haven't said I think anyone couldn't help it or that people with ASD don't have personalities. You seem to be venting st me for something I don't think.

"Do I think elliot Rodgers couldn't help it"

"I will think differently when I meet teens"

Totally projecting. I don't think people with ASD have no personalities or will apart from their ASD. I just think as saintly said that we must always look at motivation for behaviour which is often anxiety based.

That's all. You are seriously giving me a kicking for something I don't even bloody think!

WtF

No, I don't want a pop at anyone. If I had, I would have posted straight away.

I went for a long walk, and did tidying, trying to convince myself I was unreasonable, because I normally agree with Fanjo on everything. I'm clam now, but I still don't feel unreasonable.

Ral. Thank you

Tilly..sorry ..you are being unreasonable because I don't think these things you are angry at me about thinking.

That is the bottom line. It's very strange. And nothing I can do about it.

I can't say any more.

How on earth was Fanjo disablist?

The troll comments - if they actually happened could just have been behavuour related to ASD. Now ASD or not, tantrum or not, I wouldn't be heading out the door to fetch fast food - but I might understand the behaviour as something compulsive and obsessive if that was part of the individuals repertoire. Without knowing the individual we have no way of knowing whether it's ASD related or not - back to needing a functional behaviour analysis.

For example I took ds1 & ds3 to the cinema. Ds1 was too loud (shouting) so I took him out & crossed that off the 'something to try' list. But I wasn't cross with him as it's just part of his ASD so clearly cinemas aren't a possibility for him yet. If ds3 (aged 9) had started shouting loudly & carried on when told to be quiet I would have been cross. Behaviour can only be judged if you know the individual.

Exactly. Thanks for putting it much more calmly and rationally than me saintly.