To be sick of personality disorder being used as an excuse for bad behaviour?

[fluffydressinggown]

I see it all the time on here, people say their partner/friend/family member has behaved badly and someone comes along and says maybe it is a personality disorder.

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour. Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

There is a whole world of difference between different ends of the spectrum and what is reasonable and acceptable for one end, may not be so the further along it goes.

I do bloody brilliantly my best with my son and he's lovely and full of personality. But he has lots and lots of behaviours which make our family life nigh on impossible at times and which won't be ironed out just by telling him or showing him what's 'not acceptable'. It's complicated. As for calling fanjo disablist, that's just wrong. Saintly and fanjo put it all much better than me, which is why I love 'em.

Right. Let's start with some analogies.

Is it disabilist to assume that someone with a physical disability incapable of participating in mainstream education? Yes, it is, but it was an attitude that used to be common in Britain, and many people were institutionalised.

There was a one-size-fits-all approach to any kind of disability, physical, neurological, etc, and expectations were minimal. They did not have appropriate expectations of individuals, they had none.

Can we agree that it is disablist to assume that someone cannot lead an independent life just because they have a disability, without considering the actual disability?

Well, I happen to consider the outrage expressed here, purely because someone said that some people with ASD can be wankers, a pretty low expectation. A pretty disabilist expectation.

for what it's worth I do too. I think the biggest insult I could pay to any person with asd is to make out like all asd sufferers are incapable of manipulation and shitty behaviour.

and I could say the same of any mh diagnosis. Having a MH diagnosis doesn't make a person immune to using twattish behaviours

It was a troll ...they were talking about someone with AS and indeed they said AS ONLY causes " a bit of social awkwardness" and nothing more so they felt.free to judge this guy's behaviour entirely as if he was just a wanker,without making any allowances for the fact that some of his behaviour may have been caused by his AS. We obviously don't know which is which.

We have experience of anxiety causing behaviour that may seem to be bratty but isn't so this seemed unfair and we objected. To the troll who was posting to inflame. As if the guys behaviour was caused by his AS it would be unfair to assume he was a wanker. Hence I posted the link to invisible disablities part of this is my child campaign.

Have immense experience of people I know having their kids behaviour judged to just be bratty because of anxiety based ASD behaviour and this is what the TROLL tapped into.

Not my hugely disablist belief that people with ASD can't achieve independence and true wanker dom. if that's what they want. Some can. And some can't. Depending on where they are on spectrum

My DD seems like a right brat sometimes but it's generally due to ASD and anxiety. It just is...she is severe. So I was coming from that point of view.

To call me disablist is laughable. It really is. I do not hold these beliefs you are objecting to. I was objecting on different grounds.

Now if you persist in calling me disablist because I am merely fighting for understanding for those who may not be able to regulate their behaviour..while thinking fucking YAY if people can, then I will get really feckin pissed off.

I don't think all ASD sufferers are incapable of shitty behaviour.

I fucking dont.

Sorry for get swear but I am SICk of being bashed for something I DO NOT think

If after I said this you persist in claiming I am disablist and I think things I don't think it will just be bullying me,lemon.

all this TROLL stuff, who is saying that? MNHQ or you yourself? I saw nothing on this post, or in the other things she has posted that said troll. Mind you, I didn't see half of what you did, and I read it thoroughly. It's like Chinese whispers in here. Fart in a post in the late morning, and by the time night falls it's turned into a steaming pile of crap.

Yes MNHQ said poster has been banned

Why are you so desperate to have a pop at me lemon? Have we met under another name?

Or do you just generally feel like a good argument

If after I said this you persist in claiming I am disablist and I think things I don't think it will just be bullying me,lemon.

sorry, could you say that in a manner in which I have a chance of understanding what you mean? Are you calling me a bully? Or are you threatening to bully me? Or are you adressing someone else entirely? I have never used the word disablist. I simply have no idea what you are on about. You are not coming across coherently.

I missed a comma after the second think.

I am tired.

I mean if you keep saying I am disablist for holding beliefs which i have now said I don't have, that will clearly just be a way of bullying me. By you. As you are intent on doing for some sad reason.

Tilly said I was disablist. You agreed with her.

Am not at my most coherent but you are being wilfully obtuse.

Will leave it at that.

If you keep on at me eventually you will just show yourself up.

Have a nice evening.

can you show me one single post where i have said you are disablist?

i think you are getting bullying mixed up with disagreeing.

Do i now come back with....

if you continue to say i am bullying you after i have stated i am not, that will clearly be a way of bullying me. By you. As you seem intent on doing for some reason.

Do you see how pointless this is?

I disagree with you. We are adults. Get over it. It happens.

Right ok. You have merely disagreed and not hounded me for ages desperate for an argument.whatever dear. Have a nice evening.

You and tilly. Hours of hounding for things I don't even believe.

Fucking shocking.

Won't wait for an apology.

Tara

I am hounding you?

pot kettle black

just had a quick count of posts since I came back at 6.15pm. I have posted 5 times, you have posted about 20 times

i will just assume you are one of those people who have extreme reactions towards people who don't agree with them

She's not normally :) Sounds like some wires have been crossed.

Can we agree that it is disablist to assume that someone cannot lead an independent life just because they have a disability, without considering the actual disability

No-one has suggested that.

It does get pretty dull (from the other side) to hear that people with ASD will always do well with the right environment, that your ambitions for your child are low (when they're realistic - had a right lecture from someone once because I said that ds1 wouldn't be going to university - he's 15, has just learned to write his name and requires 24 hours care FFS - being tuned into reality FM doesn't mean that you have low ambitions, it just means you have realistic ones), and I do object to the idea that behaviours are always under someone's control and so therefore ascribing them to ASD must be an excuse. My son's behaviours occur when he has lost control, due to anxiety and panic. I don't think he's ever produced a challenging behaviour with intent (a pisstaking one that is designed to annoy yes - but an loss of control where people get hurt - nope).

As has been said, it depends very much on where someone is on the spectrum, and actually their anxiety levels. DS1 was doing much better 2 years ago - and was able to access a lot more - because his anxiety levels were lower. His abilities are presumably much the same, but his functioning is lower and his behaviour is much worse.

I do object to the idea that behaviours are always under someone's control and so therefore ascribing them to ASD must be an excuse.

No one has suggested that. Just that some behaviours some of the time can be.

Err that is exactly what we are both saying so why all the flaming. Oh sorry..."disagreeing"

In work a collegue does fuck all and it's blamed on SAD. Everyone else has to take on her work load during the winter so she can just stand around literally doing nothing.

why do you keep engaging me Fango? By doing so you are putting me in the position of running the risk of you again accusing me of bullying you, flaming you and hounding you if I don't agree with you when I respond. If I felt hounded by someone, the last thing I would do is continually and repeatedly make efforts to engage with them. I disagree with you. We're adults. That's a part of life sometimes. Get over it.