To be sick of personality disorder being used as an excuse for bad behaviour?

[fluffydressinggown]

I see it all the time on here, people say their partner/friend/family member has behaved badly and someone comes along and says maybe it is a personality disorder.

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour. Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

Is the state of UK MH care that bad?
You wouldn't believe how bad it is sad and angry.
MH services, adult and children, are terrible.

Agreed mental health provision is abysmal, as is public awareness.

Time and again I read of parents struggling to get a dx that would give them access to the help they need to help their DC.
Children who are not assessed and left to fend for themselves are likely to develop secondary problems.

A friend of mines son was diagnosed with ASD around the age of 15 of horrendous physical bullying. Around the age of 17 he discovered alcohol and violence. He even attacked his mother. She now has no contact with him. If only he has a dx and help before it was too late.

I am sure there are many many people out there diagnosed with say autism who go onto develop other problems for example alcoholism who are just labelled a bloody selfish pain.

Still others suspect their is something wrong who struggle for years or decades trying to figure out whats wrong. People like me...
I was diagnosed with ASD this month at the age of 47.

I started a thread titled aibu to think the world doesnt care about adults with Aspergers.
This thread kinda proves the point sadly.

A friend of mines son was diagnosed with ASD around the age of 15 after years of horrendous physical bullying.

"Apologists"?

Garlic I am truly saddened at these posts from you as you have been one of my favourite posters on MN.

Incidentally the posts we were objecting to were almost certainly trolling.

Seriously.calling people "apologists " for saying that someone with difficult behaviour and AS is not necessarily a "wanker looking for an excuse" is shocking.

And with that I am off. Sad to see the fallout these trolls have amongst genuine posters.

(Off thread not MN. Hospital appt)

Argh, Fanjo, I realised apologist was the wrong word as soon as I hit Post! I should just have said posters or similar.

The word doesn't matter. You were basically objecting to our reaction to a troll. Very depressing :(

Mental Health Statistics: Prisons

*More than 70% of the prison population has two or more mental health disorders. (Social Exclusion Unit, 2004, quoting Psychiatric Morbidity Among Prisoners In England And Wales, 1998)

*Male prisoners are 14 times more likely to have two or more disorders than men in general, and female prisoners are 35 times more likely than women in general. (Social Exclusion Unit, 2004, quoting Psychiatric Morbidity Among Prisoners In England And Wales, 1998)

*The suicide rate in prisons is almost 15 times higher than in the general population: in 2002 the rate was 143 per 100,000 compared to 9 per 100,000 in the general population. (The National Service Framework For Mental Health: Five Years On, Department of Health, 2004; Samaritans Information Resource Pack, 2004)

The NHS can't cope with our society's mentally ill, so the crisis is hidden behind bars

The government may not mean to kill people with mental disabilities but it's deeds, not motives, that matter, and when the coalition subtracted political cost from economic gain, it found those with disabilities were the easiest people in Britain to dispose of.

Mental health is the NHS's Cinderella service, even in good times. In recession, it's hammered.

Mental health units to be set up inside prisons

:(

For me, the posts above completed a circle. Just as people dealing with ASDs get fed up of posters who blame autism/asperger's for all sorts of bad behaviour, I get fed up with posters who claim bad behaviour can't be put down to 'wiring' issues of one sort or another - including ASD. There are extremes on both sides, and they are wrong, but in general the discussion can be worth having.

YY, Brainy. It's becoming nightmarish. Kafka-esque.

Have you seen this, Brainy? www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/16/chris-grayling-force-super-child-jail-teenage-inmates

Good grief it's all so depressing.

"Few talk of the victimhood or bravery of those who must live in a world where they are routinely bullied and despised.
Prisoners don't vote, and there never have been votes in treating them fairly."

Prisons are a dumping ground for many children who have been already let down by the system. Doubly punished for something not of their making and beyond their control.

For me, the posts above completed a circle. Just as people dealing with ASDs get fed up of posters who blame autism/asperger's for all sorts of bad behaviour, I get fed up with posters who claim bad behaviour can't be put down to 'wiring' issues of one sort or another - including ASD. There are extremes on both sides, and they are wrong, but in general the discussion can be worth having.

I see exactly where you are coming from. I didn't like the now deleted comment above. But I also don't like the many wrong things said daily on mumsnet about pd's, especially men with pd's. Invariably it's always just a version of "LTB because he is a cunt", there is very little space for understanding or empathy. The deleted comment and the reactions it got were quite ironic, especially on this particular thread.

What is ironic about people objecting to someone saying they know someone who uses AS as an excuse for bad behaviour (incidentally a troll) and describing behaviour that we all know could be a lot more.complex than being a wanker (as the lovely troll said..)?

Maybe it's because you don't have personal experience of AS.

For example if you had depression and a troll came along saying "I know someone with depression who uses it as an excuse to lie in bed and be a miserable sod?" You wouldn't object to that and point out that may not be the case?

Seeing this as ironic and comparing us to a TROLL (banned I think now) is really insulting. I have no words.

The irony is we were on same side and just wanting people to look a bit deeper at the motives behind behaviour and not write people off as wankers.

Anyway I'm going to leave this thread as I am really very angry at some people.

For example if you had depression and a troll came along saying "I know someone with depression who uses it as an excuse to lie in bed and be a miserable sod?" You wouldn't object to that and point out that may not be the case?

I have, and I can't deny that sometimes I lie in bed for long periods, being a miserable sod. I wouldn't encourage them to yank me (or someone like me) out of bed & read me the riot act. But I would sympathise with them - I'd make a shit partner during a down cycle! I sure as hell don't feel anyone's obliged to be all self-sacrificial and bring me toast in bed.

... although, if anybody wants to, I'll PM them my address

I suffered for a long time (before being diagnosed) no doubt having Tantrums and various bouts of depression dealing with them without help or understanding why. I never used or threatened violence to anyone. My tantrums would be "shouting and crying" or driving off for an hour or two. I can not accept that violence towards people is endemic in people suffering from ASD.

The point is having ASD or any other form of Autism does not excuse Violent behaviour or the "pathetic" behaviour of the 22 year old described by Dog.
He may have ASD but he still has got a pair of "legs" so is playing . I and most sufferers would not dream of "playing" on our conditions in - fact we would try to downplay our conditions and try to behave normally.

Good post smokepole.

I would not play to my condition either. Im one of the 15% with a job who is and has always been independent in my adult life.
A little understanding and acceptance would help though...I can dream

Another thing to consider is the environment a person with ASD is born into. An autistic child with a highly supportive environment will no doubt have a much better outcome than an autistic child coming from a violent, abusive, neglectful background.

If a child with ASD has been abused as with neurotypical children there a greater risk of violent behaviour.

I would say people on the spectrum are more vulnerable than violent overall.

People react differently to a diagnosis smokepole. My attitude towards bipolar is as a disabled person I want to prove not only am I equal to others, I can do stuff better than others. My bipolar spurs me to work long hours, 7 day weeks, to prove to people that I am not going to let it hold me back. My ex who had bp was the total opposite. I always washed the dishes but got sick of doing it every time, so I went on dish washing strike and watched as a stack of dirty dishes grew next to the sink. When he could not find a clean plate I suggested it was his turn to clean them. He lasted 2 minutes before fleeing the kitchen saying "I cannot cope with dishes, I have bipolar". I went apeshit at him. My granddad lost the use of one arm in WW2 and he still dishes, and I have bipolar and do them. He was just a lazy sod but tried to use bipolar as an excuse for this.
Oh and just before I get a flaming, if he had been in a depressed phase and genuinely lacking in motivation I would not state this. He was perfectly stable when the dish incident occurred.

I emphatically disagree with the implication that personal knowledge of ASD means always accepting that problematic behaviour is more complex than being a wanker.

Sometimes it is. But, sometimes, it isn't. People with ASDs actually have personalities. Having an ASD is not synonymous with having a lobotomy in a 70s sci-fi novel.

Having appropriate expectations and recognising the individual levels of difficulties that some will face is quite different from writing off anyone with an ASD as being incapable of being a wanker.

I have taken a long time to write this, as I had to take a long -stomp- walk first, so I suggest no-one on this thread assumes they're the only angry person...

See, I'm so annoyed, I messed up my striking!

Well you are angry at wrong person because I am very aware of the variety of personalities of people with ASD. Since I know many and gave birth to one.

I was annoyed at troll for putting all behaviour instantly down to being a wanker. Yes troll. It wasn't even a real person.

But anyway be angry at me if you want because frankly I have had a crap day and I do not give a shiny shite.

BrainyMess. If you have time you could watch Dr Temple Grandin a (world renowned Animal Scientist) ASD and other Autistic traits sufferer talk about the Autistic Brain .

One thing she says is the importance of being told how to behave from a young age, for instance how to behave at the dining table during meals. The National Autistic Society also suggest the best way to help Autistic people learn how to behave and interact is by showing them why and how it will benefit them...

Brainy Mess should have said on You Tube.

Not angry but I agree with queen
My he issue is that a lot if adults now never had a diagnosis as ASD, let alone AS, wasn't really diagnosed then. I know my DH us one of them.
So it's all good to say the important bit us to teach then young hie to behave BUT what if they haven't because no one knew about their SN then. It because their parents couldn't be bothered. Or they did but the 'wrong' way fir someone with AS/ASD?
You end up with people who might be behaving 'wrongly' partly because of the SN or MH (as they haven't been taught right and are to rigid to change or can't see the issue because they struggle to see the situation from the others pov).

Personally I find that hard. Because it's not 'their' fault but at the same time, why should you put up with it?