Mother of sons and feminism

[Adnerb95]

Germaine Greer's book The Female Eunuch was life-changing for me when I was at uni many years ago. I still consider myself a feminist, love to see equality of opportunity for women, hate misogyny, think we have a way to go still ... BUT I think some current branches of feminism are seriously messing with young men's heads! Any mention, for example, of a false rape allegation brings down the wrath of any number of online commentators, who immediately label you a rape apologist, as if you are making light of a hateful crime, with no excuse. Apparently, admitting that there are - not often, but occasionally - false allegations is something to be dismissed out of hand and treated as unimportant. A friend's son was recently accused of a rape following consensual sex because she was fearful of the repercussions from her (hitherto secret!) boyfriend. The hell of that family's experience which is now finally over - the police have decided on no further action and actually apologised to the young man - has been indescribable. But it was the online reactions to any mention of such an allegation possibly being untrue, that caused the most damage not just the this young man's thinking but to my sons and their friends as well. I have taught them to respect women, to be caring and thoughtful. Never to objectify women or use them in any way. But they find it difficult to deal with the attitudes which have ben revealed, which see all men as potential rapists, users and so on. Isn't it time for the feminist community to realise that one day they may have sons and they may find that their sons can also be used and abused? That sometimes their sons may have reason to fear the other sex, sad though that may be?

Yes it is but maybe that's because of the way my Mother brought me up or the the generation i am from.
You all make good points but I still feel that women have some responsibility.
My Son would say the same as you are saying - where does this level of respect come from? I know many men would say different. I just want women protected from those sort of men.
I just feel if you go back for coffee you are putting yourself at risk. And you are right that's wrong but if that wasn't a fact, how is there rape in the first place? Do you really think we can educate all men? Misogynists have always existed and I fear always will.

There is rape when a man sticks his dick where it isn't wanted, regardless of if he knows her, has bought her dinner, spiked her drink, married her, dated her or any other damn thing.

What is hard to understand about that?

"Yes it is but maybe that's because of the way my Mother brought me up or the the generation i am from."

Oh, no- don't you dare insult older women by playing the "my generation" card!

NotDavidTennant lol yes unfortunately! not sure if that's a good thing or bad. She has been very happily married for 30 odd years to a man who adores her. And yes she puts up with more than I would.
I am always up for learning, being proved wrong so have taken some points on board - it seems to me though these things are only possible in an ideal world and we are along way off that yet. But maybe we do need to try and make that happen.
It made for good debate though.

You all make good points but I still feel that women have some responsibility.

The danger with this is that each of your daughters are likely to be sexually assaulted at some point. Have you taught them that they have a valid right to go to work, go to class or go for a run without that happening? Or have you left them with even a slight impression that they must have done something wrong and are somehow to blame? If so, I wonder if they'd feel they could confide in someone.

Hakluyt you are very gullible. Maybe go do some exercise and get rid of all that "angry" energy.
I'm going to make a cup of tea and put a pie in the oven . . maybe even two. If i knew how to put a "winky face" there I would (maybe that's a generational thing too); anyway you would probably find that insulting.

Vivacia gong for a run or class and being sexually assaulted or raped isn't "date rape" is it, it's "rape". I would hope my daughters would not do these activities with their tits and arse hanging out and then flirt with every stranger they come across!

Oh my, the thread has moved on indeed

It is my understanding that rape is primarily about control/power, not sex.
Which is why anybody is at risk of rape, one woman in particular.
Old women, 'modestly' dressed women, nuns ffs have and will be raped.
Rape being systematically used as a weapon of war to terrorise and control whole populations.

While I don't disagree that there are situations which may be more risky than others and some common sense is never a bad thing even when it comes to, oh dunno, having your handbag snatched, the blame and the responsibility for rape is always with the rapist. Penis where it's not wanted = rape.

Alone - my daughter plays beach volleyball. How would you propose she does that without her tits and arse hanging out?

I don't really see a difference between 'rape' or 'date rape' or 'drug assisted rape' tbh - 'tis all rape.
Does the law make a difference between those?

It is such a myth that most rape happens in dark alley ways committed by strangers who suddenly jump out of nowhere and attack a scantily clad girl!

Vivacia gong for a run or class and being sexually assaulted or raped isn't "date rape" is it, it's "rape". I would hope my daughters would not do these activities with their tits and arse hanging out and then flirt with every stranger they come across!

Deep breath.

How do you define date rape? How is it different to rape?

I have no idea where the 'one' in my penultimate post came from btw.

women are at risk of rape, not 'one women'

Alone your ignorance hurts my head. I too am an old hen,been there done that,watching the young folks doing it now. Come up for coffee does not mean lets have sex. Men are not slaves to their dicks unable to control themselves. Men are as in control of their desires as they want to be.
But rape is not about sex. Rape is about power and control and degradation and humiliation. Date rape,stranger rape,marital/relationship rape is not about crossed wires or miscommunication,it is not about sex.

"Hakluyt you are very gullible. Maybe go do some exercise and get rid of all that "angry" energy.
I'm going to make a cup of tea and put a pie in the oven . . maybe even two. If i knew how to put a "winky face" there I would (maybe that's a generational thing too); anyway you would probably find that insulting."

So you are a troll! then! What a relief!

"their personal experience is that they do not know anyone who has been the victim of male rape whereas they DO know someone who has been the victim of false allegations so naturally, that will loom larger in their minds"

Sadly they may well know people who have been victims of rape. But in all likelihood it will have gone unreported. It is worth them bearing that in mind

Exactly

"their personal experience is that they do not know anyone who has been the victim of male rape whereas they DO know someone who has been the victim of false allegations so naturally, that will loom larger in their minds"

Why? Do they have no imaginations? They do certainly know women who have been raped or sexually assaulted- does that loom large in their minds too?

They do seem rather....naive.......men in their 20s.......

Trigger warning**

Alone say your son went on a date with a woman,they had dinner went for a walk tslked about their lives dreams hopes. They get to her house and she invites him for coffee. He starts kissing her and she kisses him back. He moves his hands downwards and she moves them off. He puts his hands back down and she says no. He pushes her to the floor and lifts her dress and rips her underwear and rapes her. She is crying no no no.

Is that rape or a horny man taking what he is owed?

Alone, just curious - did you teach your sons to ask for consent or did you just teach them the 'green light' theory ?

Hasn't it occurred to you that the notion of relying on signals and body language is not only out dated but dangerous ?

Did it not occur to you that the safest way to keep men and women safe is to teach them to ask for what they wanted ? The notion that women are somehow chaste and not allowed to want sex has resulted in the idea that men need to coax, or persuade them, that women need to signal their intent by their dress or their manner, that women then need to allege rape to prevent judgement that she's a slut. Bollox to that.

Maybe this is a stupid idea but how about you teach them, male and female that they need to ask ? That way there's no ambiguity, there's no confusion, no mixed signals. If a man wants sex, he asks, if a woman wants sex, she asks. And frankly if either one of them is too embarrassed to have that conversation, the default is that sex is off the agenda.

No green, red or amber lights needed.