"Boys will be boys"

[Amber76]

to think that the above is not an excuse for rough behaviour?

I have a 4 year old girl and an 18 month old boy. So far I've noticed little difference in the way they are and how they play. They've never wrestled each other but maybe he's a bit young. But I have never seen my girl try to wrestle another child - its just not something that has come up so far.

But we have a friend who has two young boys who are constantly play fighting and it can get very rough (things being knocked over in the house, my kids getting bumped into, etc.). They are constantly trying to kick or hit each other. My friend explains the very boisterous behaviour by just saying that all boys are like that. I don't agree and think it is a lazy excuse for bad behaviour. But I've also heard the same line trotted out at play groups and at birthday parties in relation to boys play fighting and trying to "kill" each other.

I am pregnant again and suspect it is a boy so am I going to have two little boys constantly wrestling each other for the next few years? Is this inevitable?!

I have three boys all close in age and yes, they wrestle and fight with each other. They also play nicely together.

I have a sister and a much younger brother. It was me a sis that used to fight!

I don't know if it's to do with their gender or what. But in my experience boys can be boisterous - but it's up to me as their parent or DH but tbh he's just as bad! to make sure that it never gets as bad as hurting each other.

YANBU to think that this is not an excuse for rough behavior. All children are different, and I really try not to generalise as I want my boys to be children, not boys per say, but bloody hell they love to wrestle and fight.

I spend half my time intervening, but I have to hold my hands up and say that they seem to enjoy it so much that I am prone to let them get on with it a bit , within limits of course.

Pre children I completely bought in to nurture v nature, but post children and 2 boys I am not so sure. I never really expected my boys to behave as they do and I honestly don't think that is due to my lax parenting. I have quite solid boundaries and don't allow them to hurt one another, but the minute they see anything that could even resemble a sword they are 'hi-yaing' one another in a nano second.

So YANBU but I can kind of see why some parents 'trot this out'.

IMO, sibling fighting is gender - neutral. DW and SIL used to try and drown each other in the bath, youngest niece (4) channels Merida (and appears to believe that princesses do the rescuing) and while my DBs and I fought like wild animals we did so knowing that going too far would get us a real battering from DM.

merrymouse- I was replying to walkinginmemphis' question to me -she was somehow implying that she knew better than most - because she has kids at the grand old age of 6

Get over yourself. It was a simple question out of interest - like I stated

The devil and Nancy I never said that only the boys could do the activities aimed at boys
The activities are offered to all children

Yes! It's lazy stereotyping like this that encourages boys to be aggressive and girls to be docile. It's so important ppl don't say rubbish like that within the earshot of kids. FWIW DD is one of those children who is absolutely full of energy (I try to calm down playfighting when it becomes excessive though).

Another with one of each. They love nothing more than a play fight and wrestle. Both very physical children. Very little to do with gender, more the personalities

Boys and girls, generally, do play differently - of course there are always exceptions to this but in my experience boys are more physical. There is a biological reason for this and Steve Biddulph's excellent book "Raising Boys" explains why. Play fighting is a really important part of child development (watch young animals- they all do it! ) and it actually helps children to learn self control, rather than turning them into violent monsters.

Before I had kids I was adamant that all gender behaviour differences were down to conditioning, and I still believe this has a part to play, but I now believe that there are very real biological differences that affect the way boys and girls develop. I have one of each and despite my best efforts to encourage gender neutral play, my son is and has always been more inclined to rough play than my dd.

This does not excuse bad behaviour though - but play fighting and wrestling are not "naughty" and IME it's usually mothers of girls that tend to imply this.

Having said that, my dd is always quite happy to get stuck in with the wrestling but I do wonder whether if she'd grown up with more girls around her ( all of her cousins and neighbours are boys) whether she'd be less boisterous.

My neighbour went away for a weekend one summer, leaving her 16 year old DD alone. She had a party in their back garden next to ours and all they did was throw their empty beer cans, bottles, cigarette ends and other rubbish into our garden leaving no evidence in theirs. I spoke to the mother about it when she returned and was told 'girls will be girls'. No they won't. They behave in the way they were brought up. We've never spoken much since - just 'polite'.

Sorry this is not about boys but the same thing applies. They behave how they were brought up.

My boys are wrestlers, DS1 in particular.

They do a lot of play fighting/wrestling with DH and I think it's an incredibly healthy thing. Without getting all David Attenborough about it, it is a bonding activity. It also teaches them boundaries about physical contact - there are strict rules and it stops if anyone is hurt.

DS2 doesn't enjoy it quite so much and is a little more cuddly.

What I have noticed though, now DS1 is 8 is that he is a lot less physically aggressive than his friends. He never fights at school in anger or lashes out. Even when playing he is very aware of his own strength and rarely hurts people by accident.

So it doesn't apply to all boys, and some girls are also like this, but don't mistake it for bad parenting. In the long run, they might turn out the better for it

Thing is if adults treat boys fighting as "boys will be boys" and girls fighting as bad behaviour, it's no wonder that more boys carry on fighting than girls do. Even if you treat your own kids exactly the same, other parents don't, and then they see boys at toddler group fighting and girls not fighting and draw their own conclusions.

Some kids fight, some don't. Some parents tolerate it, some don't. (And those don't necessarily match up!) Some positively encourage it in boys. How many times have you seen dads play-wrestling their toddler boys? Now how many mums doing it? And how many parents play-wrestling their toddler girls? The dad-boy combo is a lot more common in my experience.

I would never utter the phrase "boys will be boys" but I can tell you my two boys wrestle non-stop and it absolutely does my head in. I don't see girls wrestling very frequently, but I guess that doesn't mean much.

YANBU
But
I have three DSs and the fight ALL the time. Last night my DTs just would not sit down, lie down, anything really - just fighting and chasing.

No you can't stop them. Try Steve Biddulph Raising Boys (I don't agree with all of it, but there's a v interesting bit about letting them play fight to learn not to hurt each other)

Tolerating doesn't come into it- there no stopping them. Making your peace with it more like.

Does my head in

I've got 2 boys age 8&6 and no they don't wrestle or pretend fight. They are full of energy boys but it's not something they do.

They've never been interested in fighting or typically 'boys' cartoons either eg superhero, turtles etc. They're boring apparently (I agree!). They like something funny or with a good story. They don't like going round to one of my friends houses as her boys 'just want to fight they're too rough'!

I think it's just lazy to be honest. Plus I know some dad's (and a grandad) that almost encourage play fighting because it's what boys do, well yes it is if that's what you teach them!

I can assure you my husband does not encourage my boys to wrestle. It drives us both mad. Same with the grandparents.

There is a difference between having an incredibly active child and a child who frankly is a thug. On average I have met more incredbily active five year old boys than super active five year old girls. (My daughter is one of the most active children I have ever met so shows you cannot make generalisations.)

My daughter has a far more active temperment than my son. There are seven years between my two so I have not had to cope with fighting. However my five year old is constantly trying to do gymnastics, climb, and running about. I have to find a way of chanelling her energy otherwise she would wreck the house and break bones. She does a lot of going to the park, swimming and gymnastics to tire her out. I believe that if she didn't do a lot of exercise then she would get into fights.

I think the OP is being incredibly smug. Her children are still very young and there are many years of parenting ahead of her.

DS is 3 and will wrestle with his dad when DP initiates it but he has never, ever attempted to wrestle another child. He prefers playing with toy cars or being read to.

When we have visited my friend's nephews, who are 4 & 5 and very rough with their play, DS never joins in and will sit with the adults and play something quietly. Perhaps it's different between siblings though. DB and I are 4 years apart and I remember him punching me in the arm really hard and kicking me really fast while I sat on the sofa. I'd hit back but with him being the eldest and much bigger than me, it wouldn't phase him at all and he would just hit harder. and I would always get in trouble

I suspect it's down to age gap rather than gender, 15 months between my girl and boy, non stop fighting, 18 months between me and sister, non stop fighting (as children, not now) I would say though that wrestling and fighting is an essential part of development, watch kittens at play, it is normal (although, it drives me insane)

DS is 3 and will wrestle with his dad when DP initiates it but he has never, ever attempted to wrestle another child. He prefers playing with toy cars or being read to.
If he were 5 and had a brother, things may well be different.

I think what is meant by play fighting is open to interpretation.

I have two primary school aged boys who sometimes are into rolling around on the floor together (like lion cubs!). BUT when they are doing this, they are not trying to hurt each other, they are both enjoying it and there isn't punching/biting/kicking or anything like "real" fighting. I don't like them doing it anyway and make them stop but they do keep going back to it. I do remember that I quite enjoyed wrestling my sister as a child, but we did it much less than my sons try to. So I do think it is driven by gender...

Ds1 has a 'friend' at school who has taken to throwing him on the ground and hurting him, even though my son has told him clearly he doesn't like it. I am pretty sure the other mums reaction is going to be along the lines of "boys being boys". The line is crossed if one of those involved has made it clear he doesn't like it and is getting hurt and upset.

Incidentally, the Raising Boys book... It's all made up isn't it? No scientific reasoning behind it? I tried to research the "testosterone surges" everyone goes on about that they have read in this book and I couldn't find any evidence for them at all. I am happy to be proved wrong, but it appears to me that the man just wrote this book and somehow everyone believes it is true (because it sounds like it might be) and the ideas in it seem to be have accepted into the minds of parents as facts.

I have a ds (10) and a dd (8). At 4 I would have agreed with the boys are more physical need fresh air more etc sentiment. Now ds is really good at sitting still, being sensible and never initiates physical play with Dd. Dd was so placid at 3 and 4 would sit and play with dolls, do drawing etc. Now she is a ball of energy and seems to need to be run twice a day, nearly all her play is physical and it drives ds mad.

So I guess I would say ages and stages, not a boy /girl things as such.

I have a nearly 6yr old boy and it does my head in...the constant play fighting. I also have a 4yr old DD. He is rough with her and needs to be kept in check all thet time, it it exhausting. The sheer energy he has and he would willingly run around, cycle, play football etc etc all day long if he could. When he is about it is tiring for everbody.
Luckily, at school, his best friends are girls (I think he likes to be the centre of attention, rather than competing with the other boys), and that keeps his behaviour in check at school and he is very well behaved there. When the girls come over to play at ours it's very cilvilised and they don't rise to his boistrousness and they all play together nicely.
When a couple of my friends bring their equally energetic boys, there is total mayhem to the point that I actively avoid having boys around for playdates.

So IMO, boys are generally into more play fighting and rough and tumble than girls...you see it all the time at school and out and about.