To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

Why do you think that wooo?

Ladyluck if you had fully read my posts you would see that I said "with our older DC" (therefore plenty old enough to make the link, and also fully reminded and discussed when the consequence is dished out)

Just trying to point out that discipline is for the child's benefit... Not to pacify other people who care to judge our parenting.

there is alot of evidence that children who are not allowed to just be children do become 'fucked up' like it or not. you cannot judge all children on your own experience, people are people and some children will be socialised at an early age whilst others will take more time and would appreciate patience from others to help them find their way. On mn seems to be they (and their parents) are shunned and ignored. It's a bit crackers and reeks of social engineering in a subtle way. May explain why we have such a pathetic government now.

I couldn't discuss any current affairs, never mind my 4 year olds.

We talk about what we've done every day, what we are going to do, we draw pictures and talk about them, we look out of the window and normal things like that.

bloody mn is obessed with table manners. do posters actually live in the world in live in?

You say you were annoyed that you had no fun and neither did your son but maybe you were expecting a lot by taking them to a restaurant for a sit-down meal? Their son was probably bored too and expressed that with bad behavior. Sounds like he had a lot of physical energy to burn off, hence riding his bike around etc. With kids that age, I would have done something a bit more family friendly e.g. go to the park.

Sounds to me like your son has a calmer temperament and has been trained (French-style ) to sit still in a restaurant while theirs is high energy and not raised to sit quietly when he needs to.

So YANBU to be disappointed at having had a crap lunch with friends and feel like it was a waste of your time. YABU to 'hate' the way your friends parent though. You sound like you believe there is only one way to parent - your way - and anything else is wrong. Maybe their son is fine if he gets his energy burnt off with enough exercise or is doing something that distracts him enough not to act up? It's very limited thinking to just dismiss a 4 year old as a 'dickhead'. They are at fault to agree to lunch with you though if they know their son won't behave.

Either way sounds like you don't share parenting values so probably better to just avoid 'playdate' type meet-ups from now on and meet up as a couple / friends instead.

So allowing children to just be children means allowing them to do all of the things that the OP described? Or just some of them? If the latter - which ones, and why?

My son has had terrible tantrums in public places ! The rolling on the floor in the shop because I wont get the ice cream tantrum that makes your skin crawl . It happens:) still I didn't allow him to scream for 10 mins and then get him ice cream ? But maybe I'm too strict? The majority of you don't seem to think so which makes me feel a bit better as I felt really bad to feel this way.

Also we had taken the boys to play in the park before the restaurant and after lunch another hour. Plus 15 minute walk to get there and we treated them to a really nice meal with ice cream. I think thats nice.

Its fun reading all your opinions thanks for taking the time to share your views!

X

Why do I think mine grew up ok?

Because I parented them the way I wanted too. Worked for me.

No - why do you think we all have mini adult 4 year olds who can discuss current affairs with the grown ups?

I do like a good parent bashing thread! Some children are very hard work some are easier, however a lot of parents are worried about disciplining their children in public because of the snide, crappy and judgemental comments other nosey beggars impose OP i wasnt there i am not going to comment, but you never know what goes on in terms of discipline at home, we live in a f*cking judgemental society where if you over discipline you get chastised if you dont discipline you get chastised,

To the poster up thread dear god if you where seen taking a child by the elbow nowadays social services would be knocking at your door!
In modern day society parents are the lowest of the low

Yea... I have one kid I avoid eating out with. He has great table manners at home, or in other ppls houses even (depending on what is served) but he reacts to some foods and goes high as a kite. Could this kid just have been overtired and worked up by ice cream by this point?

not sure why I feel like playing devils advocate tonight, oh well

Because the way you all talk about 4 year olds on MN is ridiculous.

Maybe I just had incredibly childish children

well glad you've found it fun as the majority agreed with you! but remember so kids are harder to parent than others are and try not judge if you can, kids have to mix with each other and will make their own decisions as to who their friends are, they don't really need social engineering from their parents.

What on earth does 'children just being children' actually mean? . The research evidence tends to suggest that parents who don't set clear boundaries (and enforce them consistently) are a big problem for children's development, not that they should just let them behave anti-socially.

I think the OP has had a hard time here. We're talking about parents who let their child stand in tables and ride a scooter in a restaurant. That's not a borderline case, or maybe parents who are struggling. That's shit parenting.

And it's that kind of parenting that leads to people thinking that children are the problem and that children shouldn't be allowed in restaurants or whatever. The thing about the 'child-free' agenda is that is misdiagnoses the problem. The issue is crappy parenting, not children.

Who lets a 4 year old ride a scooter in a restaurant?

My children were always children though, it wasn't strict and no fun. They jumped in puddles and climbed trees and rolled about in the mud and fought with one another. They just sat down at a table and talked too!

So nothing more than your imagination then that means not allowing your child to stand on tables, shout and scream, and scoot round a restaurant equals MN has mini adult 4 year olds who can discuss current affairs with the grown ups.

And don't the smug mothers on MN like to tell everyone about shit parenting.

Except for theirs of course. You never know though someone somewhere might think you are a shit parent.

and there is alot of evidence for parents who set wrong boundaries for kids and don't give them enough free time to play are a big problem for them

the op has had 'fun'

jeez i wonder what planet some posters live in, you do realise your kids have to integrate as adults with each other don't you?