To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

My 4yo dd was hard work at times but I don't think I was an 'ineffectual parent'

She was always very sensitive and easily overwhelmed, me telling her off mid tantrum would have made a bad situation 100 times worse. That doesn't mean I accepted her behaviour but I worked on it at home where it was easier to contain the tantrum. I feel sorry for your friends, I bet they are struggling and you sound judgemental and smug. YABU.

My children wouldn't behave like that wooooo. That's not being smug. It's just a fact that they wouldn't dare.

Scottish children can be dreadful too.

There's no reason why a wee one can't sit in a restaurant! You just have to teach them, it doesn't just happen overnight.

Character is like their personality .

I find the most frustrating parents are the ones that threaten but actually don't mean it everyone knows it but no one says.

I agree with the can you see her without the child or something that is more child orientated like soft play..

OP I really don't think anyone "thinks this behaviour is okay"

But.. This behaviour does happen with young children. And apparently a lot when you're present strangely.

As I said upthread, chances are some of my friends think we're awful at parenting because we refuse to humiliate our kids in front of their friends just to satisfy other people. That doesn't mean our kids get away with it however. In the privacy of our home if they behave appallingly in public - they are dealt with. We discuss what they did, why we're disappointed and what will happen as a consequence.

There's a vast difference between the odd tantrum and allowing your child to shout, scream, stand on tables and scoot around the restaurant. If not allowing your child to do that is 'smug' then smug me up.

One of mine had a 10 minute tantrum outside a toy shop once.

I'm sure MN would have thought I was a shit parent for that.

Thank fuck I wasn't on MN when my kids were small.

or 'what they hell do you think your four year old is getting out of being stuck in a restaurant get them playing outside' book

You do have to teach children, and it's absurdly unreasonable to expect al
L

Sorry - to expect all children to get and be mini- adults by age 4

Or 'Why you shouldn't let your child scoot round a restaurant, even if Precious Cherub is bored'

There would have been a few threads about me too. You get stared at more with 6 kids, and even a little bit of noise and you get the 'she can't control them look'...

poor kids, not wonder so many of them are growing up fucked up these days

LuckyLopez - not fucking kidding you, no. I live in a very multinational area, and I wonder if it's to do with the fact that many of the non-English come from slightly "traditional" backgrounds or cultures. Perhaps people from some countries had more old-fashioned parenting wrought upon us, and are in turn slightly more old-fashioned than is the norm here.

The benevolent "Oh darling, don't hold that child's head under the water for quite so long" coupled with a faintly apologetic smile and absolutely NOTHING else, is something I had never imagined before moving here.

Yep - no boundaries does that to children.

My kids have played up, have had massive tantrums in public places but if I say that we are going home if you continue then we went home if they continued. It inconvenienced me more than once but it had the desired effect.

It's the ineffectual parenting that grips my shit, don't flap about telling your child that you will get cross. Practice your death stare and follow through on some decent consequences.

Yes, these poor kids who can sit at a table, look around them and have a nice conversation, they are going to turn to the drugs and the eating disorders, aren't they?

That said, my two were absolutely FOUL all day today. Loudly, and in public. Today was not a high point for me.

Well I don't remember ever leaving a party or picnic or whatever with mine.

They all grew up ok .

You are not being unreasonable at all, no.
I'm pretty laid back, but hanging out with anyone who won't discipline their child(ren) is not on my to do list.

I find that my parenting is most ineffectual amongst friends and family that I know are judging me. It's because I am desperately trying to avoid a mega tantrum so will give in on the little things to make everyone's meal more pleasant. My friends actually want to see me so they don't want me to leave mid-meal to teach my child a lesson .

Troublesometrucker I disagree with you about not 'humiliating' your children in public. It's not humiliating to deal with their behavior right then and there. Do you really think it's effective to sort out bad behaviour a few hours later at home when the child has probably long forgotten it and won't be able to make the link?

Oh yes I'm sure you all have mini adult 4 year olds who can discuss current affairs with the grown ups.