To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

I think people parent according to their tolerance levels.

I'm not prepared to put up with constant chaos, interruptions (whether adults or children interrupting) and bad manners. So it's a priority to teach and show the children how to behave so that we can all enjoy family life.

Some people are very tolerant, patient and don't mind a constant circus. In fact some people would be bored in a peaceful house.

The problem comes when the different families meet. I don't know what you can do. It boils down to whether the friendship is worth it. Eventually their children and yours will leave home.

Chacun à son gout

or horses for courses.

Yanbu. We were on holiday w another family and their 4yo demanded/whinged/tantrumed on rotation. We removed ourselves as far as we could but most effectively decided never to share a hol again. The parents made a lot of noise about discipline, but caved in every single time.

I think you're right OP. There are some people who just can't be bothered to discipline their children, because, let's face it, it can be really wearing after the 20th shout of "MUMMY!!!!", but if you give in, then you spend your life giving in and they end up being the sort of children that people don't want around them. My DS has a friend like this, and all the kids are sick of him now (age 11). I don't think parents do their children any favours by being not disciplining them.

Oh my gosh I'm not super mum either. I make mistakes. But I educate my son! Bad maybe sometimes but I try and teach him manners? Am I crazy to think its important?

And yes a lot of my friends have children like this. I live in a posh London area filled with children and so many are like this..

My friends are brilliant people I'm sad I rely like them. But cant hang out with them again ( brilliant as in fun and lovely)

YA probably BU... Because your losing so many friends over it, it strikes me that you are perhaps not very tolerant and quite judgemental of other parenting techniques. If it was just this family... Then I wouldn't think YABU. It's the fact you keep striking off friends for the same reason that makes me wonder. Must be a common thing with 4 year olds testing the boundaries, maybe you just got lucky

You see it bothers me that you said everyone's child is like this that you know.

In most situations, I usually would respond it looks like the common demominator is you. Maybe, just maybe it's more about you and less about the child or friends?

They might not like your son either.

YANBU

Children are not born behaving that - their behaviour is the product of ineffectual parenting. Some children are 'easier' than others, but allowing your child to scream/demand/scoot through a restaurant/shout is simply a lack of discipline and boundaries. Distance yourself from them now, and save yourself the bother of many more 'delightful' occasions with them.

Agree OP. Can't bear this sort of thing either and basically follow the model outlined by Gennz. MY DCs get into trouble for interrupting particularly and I simply bundle them out of places if their behaviour is really in need of addressing.

Just to throw it out there...

With our older DC, we won't discipline in public. They are warned...eg "I will get cross if you do that again" (provably a phrase iv used)

Later in the privacy of our home they are disciplined. I wouldn't humiliate them in front of their friends. They certainly don't get away with it however.

I expect I have friends who think I don't follow through on my threats

Troublesometrucker - yes, children can and do test the limits - but I think the OP is objecting to the fact that the parents are not parenting these children effectively - they aren't disciplining their children, they are giving in to tantrums, allowing bad behaviour and bad manners.

I would not want to spend time with a child who was behaving in the ways that Littlefrenchmummy described in her OP - but it is the parents who are to blame.

If it had only been one or even two friends then you could have a point, the fact that it seems to be everyone else who is wrong and only your child/parenting which is good does make me wonder.

I have friends with children with whom I get on very well. In our area we have many many friends with children so a lot of 'examples'. A lot of people don't bother with explaining and educating they just think whatever happens is ok? So I'm genuinely asking: is that ok?

I m not perfect I've said this. I make mistakes and some people might not like us I'm fine with that I just wondered if I was being really unreasonable to find a lunch like this painful?
If other parents out there would just think it was fine and love to hang out again. I wonder?

Maybe your friends are worried about your emphasis on manners in very young children and think that you should be more empathetic in general. Who knows. Difficult to see what you're asking, really.

"and then gave in" (in the OP) gives the impression that these parents are actually pretty awful
Tantrumming / whining leading to child getting thing = interminable tantrumming and whining for ever = no fun

I don't think calling a 4 year old a dickhead is very nice either.

YABU

None of mine would have been allowed to behave in the ways described in the OP - and I don't seem to have stifled them or warped their personalities with my lack of empathy.

YANBU - I find the "in a minute we're going to get cross/one more time and we're going home... ok one more time... right in a minute I really am going to be cross" types incredibly hard to be around.

OP obviously uses the MN perfect parenting method of parenting.

Yanbu. I'm really laid back parenting wise, kids are allowed to be kids, etc etc. However, when in company, it is essential to have manners, in an age specific way I mean. Eg I'd expect my eight year old to sit at peace during a meal and chat with others, use a fork etc while the four year, I'd expect pleases and thank yous.

You must be very popular if you're having to experience this so regularly and cut out so many friends because of it.

I rarely come across this. Maybe I'm just too unpopular?

YANBU.

There's a big age gap with my children and the behaviour of the toddlers I've got to know is just shocking.

They do not know the word no. They are never ever told.