Nanny sick leave

[pommedeterre]

As succinctly as possible - nanny doing three days a week for just over a year for pre schooler and toddler. All fine except bit crap at food and bit pestery for me to use her nail business.

I go on a version of mat leave for four months. Keep paying her and she helps with complicated nursery and school runs and takes toddler out. She goes in for routine operation, books two weeks off. Will now be longer as still poorly. Fine. Obviously paying her normal wage still, ok with that, grateful in fact for lucky timing with mat leave.
Except now i discover that when she felt better ten days in she babysat for someone else (then felt bad again meaning it will be more than two weeks).

Aibu in thinking she should have used her bit of energy to help me (just one school run would be awesome to be fair) rather than trying to make an extra £40???

I would read it the same way as shopgirl- that you have been v good to her letting her work reduced hours for the same pay, letting her take your child to play at her mother's house with the children that the mother is paid to child mind and then paying her full pay whilst off sick.

She probably thinks you are a soft touch and 'loaded'.

As someone else has already said, you need to 'manage' her better and communicate what is acceptable and what is not (politely, of course). You need to ask to see her medical certificate from the GP (she can only self certify for the first 7 days of sick leave). If I were you, I would increase her hours back to normal and not let her go to her mother's house but tell her what you would like her to do with the older children. I also think you should only pay her SSP which is what she is due contractually.
It's a case of putting on your big girl pants and dealing with the situation instead of stewing.

I wouldn't agree that the OP is 'fortunate' to have help- silly thing to say. She works and she has chosen to pay a nanny. It was a conscious choice. 'Lucky' would be having lots of supportive family helping for free. In this scenario the nanny has been extremely lucky!

I worked as a nanny for years, I've never known a nanny be laid off during maternity leave, if anything employers are desperate to keep the nanny.

That was in response to number's post.

However it's only a few extra days and most women don't have a nanny while on maternity so you are generally quite fortunate to have the extra support you have

I think that most people carry on using childcare (nanny, nursery or childminder) for their older children when they are on maternity actually. If you stop using it (or paying for it) you will lose your place and would have to find another nursery/childminder/nanny when you go back to work. Apart from the fact that it is not always easy to do this it would be quite disruptive for the older child(ren).

Whatever-I agree, especially Wrt disrupting older children.

It's doesn't really matter what the OPs personal opinion on what is acceptable and isn't unless it is explicitly stated within the contract though. In this case the OPs contract of employment doesn't reflect what she deems acceptable so she doesn't have a leg to stand on unfortunately.

I think the point is for us that dd1 is at school, dd2 loves pre school And could do more there and obviously anything will be new for the baby. There is no continuity issue.
It would be mind boggling cheaper.

I wasn't asking from a legal pov.

damediazepam- I think times may have changed. More women seem to be going back to work/ going back earlier and parents are looking to reduce their child care bills nowadays.

A lot of high earners in London seem to have nannies (including lots of non working mothers with high earning husbands) but a much smaller percentage outside.

YABU there's no comparison between doing a bit of evening babysitting and looking after a toddler/young school child in the day.

It probably didn't even occur to her to say she could sit with the newborn while you do the school/nursery run because as you say the baby is always with you - why would she think you would like her to look after him now? and doing a nursery/school run is a lot more taxing than sitting on a sofa listening out for waking children.

You seem resentful that you have been 'generous' and she hasn't been loyal, when in fact, she hasn't done anything wrong. You have been 'generous' to suit your own purpose though - you wanted to keep her on while you are on your 'version' of ML so you have to make that work for your nanny too. It's not 'generous' its a compromise. Not many nannies will work through maternity leave, because it can be a nightmare.

As for the sick leave - that was up to you to sort out and pay as per the contract, if you have paid over and above what's in the contract then that's your fault, not hers.

She only works for you 3 days pw. Being pissy about her babysitting on a Saturday night is petty.

YANBU.

Those who say YABU - how would you feel if you turned up at hospital for a planned operation, to be told that your op was cancelled as the surgeon was off sick. Then you found out that the surgeon had taken a day off sick from the NHS hospital, but had instead done an outpatient clinic in a private hospital, thereby earning NHS pay and private pay at the same time. The surgeon could argue that he felt well enough to do a clinic as that involved sitting down, rather than standing up doing an operating list.

What your nanny did was essentially the same.

You've nailed it chilling

But yes it must be annoying for you. However it's only a few extra days and most women don't have a nanny while on maternity so you are generally quite fortunate to have the extra support you have

She's not 'fortunate', she's employing her! You know, paying her money in exchange for services. Which the OP isn't actually receiving at present.

Good for you. I know an awful lot of wonderful hard working women but not one has had a nanny during maternity leave. Each to their own though, we all have different needs and life styles

Passive-aggressive much? Would you like some vinegar with that chip?

I fail to see how working reduced hours for full pay is a "compromise" for the nanny. I'd gladly reduce my hours but keep the same earnings!

So I should have reduced her hours and pay for four months and paid her ssp? That seems worse than full pay and expectations of loyalty to me.

Jolly the compromise is that the nanny stays on during the maternity leave when the mother is at home. There are very few nannies who are prepared to work when parents are at home because it's very very difficult, so yes, getting paid full time and working less hours is a compromise.

Would you also like to take on much more difficult working conditions during those hours Jolly? If so, then fine, you'd have my support too.

Pomme I don't know where you got that from? I think what you did was fine. However, being pissy about her babysitting one Saturday night just seems ridiculous.

Oh... Jolly - it's nothing like the surgeon example, nothing. She was sitting on her bum babysitting, not running around doing school runs with two small children - HUGE difference. It's like the surgeon taking the day off ill and taking a phone call from a private clinic in the evening.

I don't see why it is a compromise either. The OP hasn't said anything about the nanny wanting to leave because of the ML or negotiating the part time hours as a 'compromise'. I don't see why the situation is 'very, very difficult' (slight exaggeration there) for this nanny either as the OP has said that the nanny takes the toddler to her mother's house. If the many wanted to resign she could have done so.

A better analogy if you want to use the surgeon one might be sitting in a private clinic taking calls with the potential to have to go and see a patient/ operate. Even this may not be accurate as we don't know that the nanny wasn't putting the children to bed/ bathing them, etc do we?

If you are signed off as unfit you shouldn't be working regardless of the type of work (unless you have a specific 'fit' note) which she doesn't have.

Anyway, pomme- your nanny obviously doesn't think in quite the same way as you do so you need to either put up with it or have a discussion.

Chilling what in God's name is so hard about doing a school run with two small children?!! It really isn't hard at all. Plenty of mums who've just given birth do it fine, because they have to.

Also, what is it that makes it so 'very, very difficult' for a nanny to do her job while a parent is at home? Unless the nanny is a total slacker. Most people do their job with a boss nearby so why not a nanny?

I appreciate that it can be awkward for nannies when the employer is at home, but lots of people work from home these days so surely this is a fairly common occupational hazard. And anyway, the alternative is to be told she isn't needed for the duration of the maternity leave, leaving the nanny having to find another job.

And do we know for sure that the babysitting she did involved sitting in front of the TV while a baby slept? Have I missed that bit? Or could it actually have been sextuplet toddlers with sleep problems?!

As I understand it, from a legal standpoint it is considered to be fraud to do paid work while on state sickness benefit, so why should this situation be viewed as OK?

Jollyphonics your last two posts nailed it. YADDDDNBU pomme

Take on lighter duties in reduced hours with my boss nearby for full pay - yes please!!

I don't understand chilling - what do you think should happen to a nanny when a mum is on maternity?

I have a 2yo and a 4yo. We use a combination of crèche and cm. I had an Au Pair also for a while (while I was on maternity leave). My friends are also in similar situations.
The 'employee' relationship with someone who minds your small children, when you are not there, is, imo, unique. Perhaps at some level, we think, I'll treat this person well and they'll reciprocate to me and mine. I think it is human to be disappointed when this hasn't happened.
My friend had a similar experience to yours op. I forget the details but she felt let down by her cm, having treated her very well. One thing both cms had in common (I think) is that both were younger. Perhaps your cm is too young to realise that reduced hours for same pay, taking your mindees to your mums/cinema, paid sick leave... Are not the norm, and actually are pretty jammy. I do agree with some of the posters who have said you have not managed this employee.

Btw, if nanny did not want to work because I was at home ????
That would be a deal breaker for me. How does my being around the house make her job untenable?

Also, I've had babysitters who just 'sit on their bums'. I've moved on, and found better.

Taking children to the cinema/activities, especially in school holidays IS the norm, especially when the weather is crap and you can't get out as much.

Personally, I have always been delighted when a nanny took my children out of the house on activities. The crux of the matter, IMO, is whether they can do this with free/creative/educational activities i.e. playground, museum, library, drop-in centers, art classes, and the like - I am not crazy about paying 30 GBP on top of the daily nanny rate for the cinema, popcorn etc. I doubt many people are.

Exactly lovely. Fine once in a while, of course.
I think with the cinema it was more the timing, 8 days off with full pay and first communication is to ask for £22 to be spent on tickets.
Totally agree I have managed her badly as have wanted her to be happy looking after the kids. I have felt slightly taken advantage of before but this is, I think, the straw breaking the camels back.

Turns out dh has major reservations about her and a baby anyway (past the food one we both have).

I think probably end of the road for us with nannies pretty soon and will be using nursery/pre school/cms from now.