Nanny sick leave

[pommedeterre]

As succinctly as possible - nanny doing three days a week for just over a year for pre schooler and toddler. All fine except bit crap at food and bit pestery for me to use her nail business.

I go on a version of mat leave for four months. Keep paying her and she helps with complicated nursery and school runs and takes toddler out. She goes in for routine operation, books two weeks off. Will now be longer as still poorly. Fine. Obviously paying her normal wage still, ok with that, grateful in fact for lucky timing with mat leave.
Except now i discover that when she felt better ten days in she babysat for someone else (then felt bad again meaning it will be more than two weeks).

Aibu in thinking she should have used her bit of energy to help me (just one school run would be awesome to be fair) rather than trying to make an extra £40???

Would it not be best to confront her about it? All we can do is speculate, really.

So she's returning to work on Monday, when she should have returned last weds, but couldn't because she babysat on Sat night and she felt unwell afterwards. You are cross because she may have done a family member/close friend a favour rather than her employer? Her mum told you, so a fair guess it was for someone close to her. OK? You say she works 3 days a week - we know about Mondays (cinema) and Weds (too sick to return) - so assuming the 3rd day is Tuesday she only had one extra day off sick on top of the pre-booked 2 weeks in total to have her tonsils out and recover (tonsillectomies are harder to recover from for adults btw). Assuming the 3rd day is Thurs then she had 2 whole extra days off. You having a baby (ML) and her having her tonsils out (SP) are completely unrelated events and shouldn't be lumped together as an example of how reasonable you are.

YABVU - sure you're not pissed off about your failed nails instead?

It's different situations so not necessarily she didn't have the person she was babysitting for DC in the car. The parents could have been 3 doors down for all we know. She hasn't broken any employment law ultimately so whether the OP feels hard done by or not is her business but there is really nothing she can or should do about it.

Failed nails??? Nails are grim and hands dry as fuck but to describe them as failures would be harsh IMO

Third day is friday

So, it's not the nails then (thanks for sharing) and she works M, W, F and therefore has had 2 extra days off, 2 and a half weeks after having her tonsils out. Better she felt unwell after a bit of presumably light babysitting, when she most likely would have felt unwell after not babysitting anyway - than felt really unwell looking after your kids on Weds and wouldn't be returning for longer than this Monday.

Cut her some slack on this, having your tonsils out isn't necessarily a walk in the park. If you don't, YABU - you did ask.

I am fine with a yabu response by the way and understand that I decided to pay full pay. As above I think mine is a more emotional response.

Two extra days would not be an issue and understand painful op etc. Finding out about the babysitting is the thing that made me cross. As I said above I do have a little baby that sleeps a fair bit and is fine with ebm in a bottle if looking after sleeping kids was ok.

Not looking to do anything than understand whether me losing my loyalty in return was unfair or otherwise.

I get the wanting her to be part of the family. People working in your home, you don't necessarily want the formality that work places often have. And you want the children to have a warm relationship with her, not a reserved one, so it seems to follow you want a And I think in some ways you have got that - trouble is, she's seeing herself as more of a teenage member of the family! But there are good reasons for having little formailty in any employment situation. As well as your need to manage her effectively, she deserves the protection of some of that formality too. E.g. not to be surprised by being let go/have workload downgraded/etc. when no one has mentioned her performance isn't good enough.

If you're used to managing people then you know different people respond best to different styles. And if she's really good with the children otherwise it may be worth changing your style with her and seeing if you can develop her attitude. Though changing attitudes can be very hit and miss. Because finding someone new or trying out nurseries doesn't guarentee a perfect solution either, you don't know what the next person/situation will be like.

But, if you're worried about managing her effectively because you think if she isn't happy with you you're children will suffer, then she probably isn't suitable to be your nanny anyway.

This thread is becoming a caricature.

A nice woman pays her babysitter for 2 weeks sick leave, then questions the fact that she's taken other babysitting work, and is accordingly subjected to a smackdown for her insensitivity.

Thanks boots!

I checked what she was expecting yesterday because if she thought she was getting just ssp then I was bu. as she was expecting full pay and seemed surprised to have it questioned I return to my original position.

I think booms point about how I manage her is a valid one and I think that the people bringing up the contract were right - no mention of sick pay in it so obv needs revising. Some things for me to think about for sure.

You're entitled to feel how you feel but it doesn't change the fact that as far as her contract is concerned by the sounds of it she has actually done nothing wrong.

In her free time (which it was) she thought she was well enough to do something - she wasn't and realised she needed to extend her sick period, I suspect of she had been fine she would have been back to work for you on the Monday. Have you never felt better after being poorly and overdone it and realised you weren't as well as you thought?

If there is no mention of sick pay you are obliged to pay only the SSP if that's how you wish to handle it. You would be perfectly entitled to do so.

Generally if no sick pay in contract then there isnt any - just ssp which kicks in after 3 days and is a pathetic 90ish a week

Some nannies do have sick pay in contract. I am
One of them but I dont abuse it

The only times I used it in over 23yrs of nannying was when

1. had blood clot in leg that travelled to lung and collapsed it causing me 10days in hospital and 3 weeks off work (including the hospital stay)

2. 3 weeks off when dh died

Neither time did I work or babysit elsewhere

As I said at the beginning of this thread - if too ill to work in perm job and claiming full pay then too ill to work elsewhere rather nails or bs

Op has been given a really rough ride here. Too many bosses don't appreiate their nanny/look after their nanny and this lady seems to yet gets slaughtered :(

alba - but she was expecting full pay from me not ssp.

If someone who worked for me was off sick and then went and did the same work for someone else I would be annoyed. Even more so if I was paying them whilst off sick!

Yanbu

Thanks blonde.

I really don't mind a yabu but I a bit surprised that people are accusing me of being harsh when I am paying her full pay.

I have had blood clots in my lungs too! I actually did too much too soon after that and ended up back in hospital alba. I did too much for my employer though to end up there not from doing tax free jobs at the weekend.

Having tonsils out as an adult is very painful. and you could expect to not be running around doing school runs etc.

What I'd do is speak to her about it, say you heard about the BS job. Ask her about it, did she feel up to just that and not working for you? She'll probably reply in the positive.

What I would state though in future is that when she can take sick time or when not. For example I've been at work all week with a cold albeit a bad cold. When I had a vomiting virus 3 weeks ago I took 3 days off as I was vomiting and aches and pains. Only you can decide if you want a nanny round your DC with a cold or not etc.

You don't have to give her what she expects

I think you are being imminently reasonable. Your nanny had an operation and quite rightly she was paid for her recovery time.

However by my book if she's well enough to start advertising her business again and babysit, then she's well enough to come in and do her job, or at the least to come in and see how she goes.

A large part of the problem is that you can see what she is doing on FB. I am not friends with anyone I directly work with on FB, just because I don't want to see stuff I don't need to. It seems a bit well, silly, of her to post that she is looking for additional work and then tell you she can't come in.

I think ssp is harsher than full pay but expecting any ability to do even light duties to go to me. I know which I'd prefer!

But it wasn't a working day for her!! She is under no obligation to contact the OP and say I feel a bit better if you fancy going out tonight. She was not blowing off work to work for someone else, she wasn't meant to be in work.

Yes agreed it wasn't a working day.

But if I'm off sick then I concentrate on not over exerting myself so that I will recover as soon as possible. It's entirely possible that if the Nanny had not babysat or seen nail clients she would have been able to go to her main job. But as I suspect she sees the income for that as guaranteed, then there is less incentive for her to focus on her recuperation.

At the end of the day I think at the very least the Nanny was silly and shortsighted to go touting for business on FB when she is being paid sick leave by her employer, it would certainly reduce my trust in a person.

I agree she hasn't behaved brilliantly my point has solely been that from a contractual point of view she has done nothing wrong.

I also think the OP has over reacted.

Touting for bookings isn't the same as actually working though is it? And it was through the Nanny's Mum, not FB that the OP discovered about the Sat night BS, so still could have been a family/friend favour.

OP - also you know that you can reclaim the vast majority of the SP you paid, of the proportion that is up to the SSP limits when you do your quarterly (presumably) HMRC Employer's PAYE payments return.

I think you have been very reasonable too, pomme.
Your nanny is making the assumption that you are a light touch.

As it is - she is receiving full pay for less hours, because your circumstances have changed. You could have given her notice and said, from 1st of next month I only need you for XXX hours a week.. and she would have had the option to say yes, or give notice.

But you didn't - you've continued paying for a more relaxed environment (and she takes your toddlers to her mums? hmmm... that's another thread entirely!)... AND you've paid her full pay for her sick leave, which is not that typical in nanny employment.

I've only ever put statutory sick pay in my nanny's contracts... I have paid full, but I prefer it to be discretionary, so I can only pay if I have established trust with the nanny.

I suggest, if sick pay isn't stated in your contract, that you go on to SSP straight away. You can't be sure if your nanny is taking you for granted, but you feel she is, and that's sometimes enough.

I think yadnbu! You have treated her very fairly, not all employers pay sick leave. I do personally feel she is taking advantage looking after some one else's child/children. I would confront her when she returns and clear the air. Let her know how you feel about the extra work. No point in letting negative feelings affect the relationship between you both. For what it's worth - I am currently on sick leave and have cancelled a babysitting job for Saturday night as I want to be in bed early and recover so I can return to work as soon as I can.